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How Much Land Does a Man Need? by Leo Tolstoy is our July 2023 Short Story/Novella Read.

This discussion will open on July 1

Beware Short Story Discussions will have Spoilers

I read this during my lunch today, and I loved it! It is a short cautionary tale about how the grass is not always greener on the other side, and how greed can be dangerous.

Great story that makes you think about what you need versus what you want due to greed or attaining prestige. It had a perfect final sentence: (view spoiler)["Six feet from his head to his heals was all he needed." (hide spoiler)]

Just got a copy of the book and am looking forward to reading this

If you are looking for a Danish translation:

It is called "Jord. Jord!" and is included in Udvalgte Fortællinger. The book is in Ereolen both as audiobook and ebook.

Enjoyed this cautionary tale about greed and dissatisfaction. A particular person I know came immediately to mind. I have known him a lifetime and he has a perfectly nice life...home, family, children, good job; but I have never known him to be happy with any of it. He is always focusing on the boat one friend has, the collectable guitars another has, the bigger house, etc.--always the material. He can never enjoy his own life because he is always competing in his head with others. I have always found this very sad.

I love the way Tolstoy brings all of this to a universally true conclusion. As Connie says, the perfect last line!

What would you have done? If I had got to the one-day-of-walking part, I would have made a trial. This would likely be the most important day in his life, and yet hardly any preparation. But I guess that is not the point of the story.

I would like to turn the story up side down a bit: He lived a fulfilled life always acquiring more. He died happy: Having more than ever and he had secured the wealth of his family for a very long time...... But I guess that is not the point of the story. ;-)

Can we please talk about "kumiss"? Were you all already familiar with that drink, bc I wasn't! The mares were milked and from the milk kumiss was made. Gotta love how much exposure to other cultures literature gives us. 🧡📚

From Science Direct:

Kumis
Kumis, also known as koumiss, the ancient beverage which Scythian tribes (Central Asia Steppes) used to drink some 25 centuries ago is an alcoholic beverage made from fermented mare's milk. Mare's milk is usually not consumed raw, because it tends to have a strong laxative effect, although this effect is sometimes used medically. Instead, mare's milk is almost always fermented into kumis.

I wonder if Tolstoy is commenting on what appears to be some sort of imbalance in the Commune structure. Section 4: ...he applied for admission into the Commune of a large village. He stood treat to the Elders and obtained the necessary documents. Five shares were given him for his own and his sons' use... besides the use of the Communal pasture....

He wanted to go on sowing wheat, but had not enough Communal land for the purpose... There were many who wanted such land and there was not enough for all; so the people quarreled about it.

Similar to Sara's friend, with this move Pahom is "ten times better off than he had been" but he once again grows discontent. The seasons turned out well and the crops were good, so that he began to lay money by. He might have gone on living contentedly, but he grew tired of having to rent other people's land every year, and having to scramble for it. Like Connie said - need vs. want!

I think that the "passing dealer" and "tradesman" was a plant for the Bashkirs. That conclusion is based on how much mirth the Chief and village men expressed during their dealings with Pahom. He gets to the village and there is supposedly only one interpreter (although, later we find that the Chief is also able to speak in Russian). Pahom told them his purpose and the villagers "seemed very glad". The Bashkirs talked among themselves for a while. Pahom could not understand what they were saying, but saw that they were much amused and that they shouted and laughed.

Also: the tradesman's deed for 13,000 acres of land is the rough equivalent of 20 square miles. If he could do it, why couldn't Pahom? My conclusion again - bc the Devil from section one had been continually tempting Pahom, and Pahom walked from content into greed-land every time he had what Paula W. referenced above - that tricky, tricky "grass is greener" mentality.

Cheryl, fermented mare's milk was a drink of Asia. If I remember correctly, Genghis Khan drank it. The Turks of the Middle East who would create the Ottoman Empire also drank fermented mare's milk. Just like any alcoholic drink: If you drink too much you can become sick or die!

This mare's fermented drink is mentioned The Alexiad and other books about the Crusades.

When starting to read How Much Land Does a Man Need, I read of the two sisters being much like the old folktale Town Mouse and Country Mouse.

Pakhom starts out with a little fear that blossoms into greed that hints at shame as he decided to make a final push to the beginning/ending place.

My lifelong friend J has any number of times has warned those who have listed to her all the things they want that they best watch their wants. A wants list grows and grows and does notnstop. Would be better to not start a wants list.

And yes perfect ending to the story 👍

The message in this story reminds me of a really good nonfiction book. The book is titled “your money or your life��. It’s theme is: how much is enough? The book challenges readers to question how the course of their life is driven by their need for more and more things/ money. Reading it completely changed my mindset about life.

Cynda, good point about The Town Mouse and The Country Mouse!

I liked the way this story got a little under my skin, and since reading it, keeps coming to mind. It seems to me life keeps getting more complicated, and it is harder to separate wants from needs. Just having what is considered necessary technology and insurance and safety can be very expensive. And the more you have, even if you aren't striving like Pahom in this story, the more you actually do need.

Maybe we don't draw the line between town and country the same as we used to, and we're all living more like the Town Mouse. :-) So beyond resisting the constant striving, it helps to simplify, simplify, simplify!

Cheryl Carroll wrote: "Can we please talk about "kumiss"? Were you all already familiar with that drink, bc I wasn't! The mares were milked and from the milk kumiss was made. Gotta love how much exposure to other cultur..."

I wasn't either, Cheryl! Happy to have this info from you and from Cynda.

Cynda - thanks for that reference! I found a version online from Read.gov. Bottom of the page sums up the lesson: " Poverty with security is better than plenty in the midst of fear and uncertainty."

MommaWR - Thanka for your reading recommendation as well. Your Money or Your Life has a 4.5 star rating on Amazon.

I am not sure that a later 19th-century/early 20th century farmer was all that poor. Hardworking, yes. Less fancy, yes. But with cleaner air in a time before The Clean Air Act and other similar legislation, that fresh clean air was a boon. In a time when young children who survived that first year had to learn to breathe real allergens from faemstock and use their immune system in a way that city children do not. Cleaner water. Simpler foods that you had some say over how grown, stored, and prepared. I always sided with the Country Mouse. My mother, myself, and my son are all town and city folk and have allergies and other respiratory bothers that my country-raised father does not.

Yes Cheryl, that is very nearly the version I read my son when he was little. The only difference is I read to him from a illustrated storybook. For young children, the imagery entertains while the parent/adult hopes the children hear the wisdom.

This story was fine. It was very simple -- a fable or parable about being happy with what you have, and about the evils of greed. There certainly wasn't any subtlety in its messaging, but maybe that level of hammering the point home was necessary given his audience, in a way that it wasn't necessary for me. The story felt familiar to me, especially when we got to the point where he got as much land as he could walk in a day. I didn't know whether this meant I'd read it before (I don't think so), or that its plot is archetypal, or a recurring motif that occurs in other stories as well. I wonder whether this is the original. The last line did play nicely with the title.

My experience with the story is like Wobbley's. Isaw the story as a parable and archetypal. Unfortunately, for me the translation I read did not bring out any literary genius in the text and was very average so I won't comment further.

What versions of this story (translations) are you reading? Does anyone have helpful links. I have seen a couple, but I like to compare versions.


I found this where the text seems on start on page 3:




and this one




both match the Librovox audiobook version on Youtube.

Hi Lynn. I found this text online:

There is also audiobook recording on YouTube. For non-Libribox recording:
(I am grateful to Librivox. Sometimes that is what I need when eyes are tired of reading and when I do not have access to on e-services I use.)

I have access through both Hoopla and Scribd. In order to save my Hoopla selections, I used Scribd for the audiobook--not the Librivox but also not labeled. . . . . .Hoopla only has e-book versions. I would chose the quilt-looking book cover selection. I have not been disappointed in those selections.

I think of it as a 4*. It was an allegory. (view spoiler)[ It had many familiar elements like a boast that opened the door for the Devil. There was greed, envy, and false witness. I thought that the end scene where he runs and runs until he dies was an apt description of the entire life of avarice he had been living. (view spoiler)[ (hide spoiler)] (hide spoiler)]

Cynda wrote: "Hi Lynn. I found this text online:

There is also audiobook recording on YouTube. For non-Libribox recording: ..."

They all seem to be the same translations. Thanks.

What I like about Librivox is that it makes me slow down. Even at 1.5x normal speed, I still tend to concentrate more and read more slowly. Using eyes and ears both seems to help me absorb the story better.

So agree Lynn about the story and the reading/listening.

I caught the fable aspect. Now got the allegory :-)

Cheryl Carroll wrote: "I wonder if Tolstoy is commenting on what appears to be some sort of imbalance in the Commune structure. Section 4: ...he applied for admission into the Commune of a large village. He stood treat ..."

Yes I agree Tolstoy is commenting on the commune system.

I thought that the Devil led Pahom every step of the way. (view spoiler)[The Devils "sows discord among the villagers" in the form of an old soldier turned Steward. I also though that the man from the Volga River region, and the man who had purchased land from the Bashkirs were just the Devil in disguise. Finally the Chief of the Bashkirs was most obviously the Devil. In a way it reminded me of a couple of Twilight Zone Episodes where the Devil would appear and sign a contract with someone, or even the old movie "Damn Yankees". (hide spoiler)]

@Lynn - agreed. Tolstoy calls him the Devil and the Evil One, and he was the horse rider dangling a carrot before Pahom's nose. In this story, Pahom had the opportunity to full stop at least twice, but he allowed greed to spur him on. :-(

This was my first Tolstoy, and I agree with others that it was a very basic story. However, the edition I have indicates that Tolstoy was collecting regional folk tales. So now my thought is that without writers like him and the Grimm Brothers and whoever wrote Mother Hubbard, we wouldn't even have the chance to describe these stories as simple and predictable. Because we wouldn't have had them in the first place! :-)

@Cynda- excellent thought on illustrations and wisdom. Thank you for that.

The devil's participation is a variation of the Faust story for me. I agree with Lynn and Cheryl that the devil is present in many guises in the progress of Pahom's destruction.

Nice thought about the endurance of these stories, Cheryl. We could include Aesop in those we have to thank. I hope you will read more of Tolstoy. Both Anna Karenina and War and Peace are on my favorites list. He knows how to tell stories nowhere near as simple as this one!

@Sara - I will definitely be reading more. Not just his "great" works, but more of these fables as well.

I read this in the little black Penguin Classic How Much Land Does a Man Need?, which also contains "What Men Live By" (not read yet). The translation dates from 1993 and is by Robert Wilks.

The back cover says James Joyce considered this the world's greatest story. I personally think that is too much praise.

I found it a quite simple story with a fairytale-like quality. It kept reminding me of the Grimm fairy tale (view spoiler)["The Fisherman and His Wife", in which the wife is never satisfied with what she has but keeps wishing for bigger and better things until finally she wishes too much. (hide spoiler)]

I was confused by the Bashkir elder's stating "the price is a thousand roubles a day" for the land. I interpreted that as Pakhom having to pay a thousand roubles every day, but that was obviously not what was meant. Have any of you read another translation (or maybe the original), in which this sentence is more clear?

lethe wrote: "I was confused by the Bashkir elder's stating "the price is a thousand roubles a day" for the land. "

I got the Penguin Classic edition too. I liked both How Much Land Does a Man Need? and What Men Live By.
I am also confused by Bashkir elder's price statement.

The price is a thousand roubles a day because they are selling it to him by how much he can walk in a day, not by the acre. No matter how much he claims, the price is one thousand roubles.

“Our price is always the same: one thousand roubles a day.��
Pahóm did not understand.
“A day? What measure is that? How many acres would that be?��
“We do not know how to reckon it out,�� said the Chief. “We sell it by the day. As
much as you can go round on your feet in a day is yours, and the price is one thousand
roubles a day.��

Aah got it now. Thanks Sara!

Thanks, Sara!

Cheryl Carroll wrote: "...I think that the "passing dealer" and "tradesman" was a plant for the Bashkirs...."

I agree with Lynn and others above that they were both supposed to be the Devil, who is more of a mischievous "Loki" figure in this story than a malevolent being as he is usually thought of in modern religious terms. Pakhom even has a dream in Chapter VII where many of the people he encountered turn into the Devil.

Pakhom lay awake all night. He only dropped off just before dawn. And as soon as he'd dropped off, he had a dream. He seemed to be lying in this very same tent, and he could hear someone guffawing outside. He wanted to go and see who was laughing, so he got up and went outside the tent, and there he saw that same Bashkir headman sitting by the tent, clutching his stomach in both hands and rolling about with laughter and something. Pakhom went up to him and asked, 'What are you laughing at?' And then he saw it wasn't the Bashkir headman but the merchant he's seen before, who had dropped in on him and told him about the land. And no sooner had he asked the merchant, 'Have you been here long?' when it wasn't the merchant any longer, but the very same peasant who had come up from the Volga and visited him. And then Pakhom saw that it wasn't the peasant either, but the Devil himself, with horns and hooves, sitting and laughing, and in front of him a man lying on the ground, barefoot in a smock and breeches. And Pakhom dreamed that he looked closer at this man to see who it might be. And he saw that the man was dead, and that it was himself. Pakhom was horrified, and woke up.

@RJ - Thanks for posting this -- that dream sequence was the best! It packed into one scene a montage of the events that culminated in the final act.

RJ what you have recorded here reminds me that I am wanting to incorporate some morality plays in my reading practice.

Most people don't often read morality plays, so here is a reminder or explanation:

I thought I had read this story in the past few years and now I know that I had. Yes, I had the file feel from the beginning and also had The Screw Tape Letters by C.S. Lewis running in the back of my mind.

This is a quote from Lewis and Screwtape is teaching his apprentice Wormwood all the various ways to gets his “patient�� to come to the evil ways of the Devil.
The sense of ownership in general is always to be encouraged. The humans are always putting up claims to ownership which sound equally funny in Heaven and in Hell and we must keep them doing so.
So Tolstoy was spot on in the tale of greed and wanting more and more.

@Cynda - thanks for the link introducing morality plays, for those like me unfamiliar. Maybe we can start nominating these? The article provided several suggestions.

@Lori - That's a great connection to Lewis, thank you!

Okay Cheryl. If the group is not interested, we and others who are, can read together.

Lori we almost lost the ability to make that connection. The Screwtape Letters fell out of popularity for a while. Only now am I sometimes seeing the text available, usually online.

Cynda, I have read Screwtape twice and get so much from it each time. So eye opening! I also just saw that there is a newish movie called A Very Reluctant Convert. I’d like to watch it. So hoping that Lewis’s books are becoming more popular now.