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1. Share your thoughts and comments that occur "along the way," while reading the book, or that are not addressed in other topics.

I have detected an inconsistency in the novel. De Wohl says in Book TWO, chapter 6 that Augustine was reading the Bible and found it "unelegant." But this was on the year A.D. 371-372. What version of the Bible was Augustine reading?

a) Not the original Hebrew or the Greek translation of the Old Testament (the Septuagint) for Augustine didn't read Hebrew and only read Greek with difficulty, as he himself says in Confessions and De Wohl mentions in the novel (he hated his lessons on Greek language and tried to find a good translation of Homer).

b) For the same reason, he wasn't reading the original New Testament in Greek.

c) He could be reading a Latin translation. The problem is, Pope Damasus commissioned St. Jerome to translate the Bible into Latin on the year 382, ten years after Augustin is supposed to be reading the Bible. Therefore he was reading a previous Latin version that the Church (or at least Pope Damasus) considered imperfect.

So if Augustine, by reading an imperfect translation of the Bible, decided that it was "unelegant," he was being unfair, for the problem of style could be the fault of the translator, not of the authors. I think Augustine, in spite of his youth, would not have made this mistake. Therefore, it's probably De Wohl's mistake.

It is posible.

I have found in Book III chapter V that Augustine says that he read the Scriptures and found them written in a simple style that could not be compared to the style of Cicero. So this supposed inconsistency I had found is not due to De Wohl, but to Augustine himself, and he recognizes it.

I have decided to read both books (De Wohl's and the Confessions) in parallel, so I can detect similar situations better.

The professor and me have a parallel discussion about this book and i was saying that i would rather the general Aetius of the novel about Saint Leo than the Aetius of "Restless flame"

Fonch wrote: "The professor and me have a parallel discussion about this book and i was saying that i would rather the general Aetius of the novel about Saint Leo than the Aetius of "Restless flame""

I'm now at the end of book V of "The restless flame" and will start book VI of "Confessions" so I still can't say much about Aetius, who appears in book VIII of "The restless flame" and not at all in "Confessions" :-)

Aetius appears very little in this book. I think that the Last part is the unique original of this novel and does not appear in the Confessions.

Fonch wrote: "Aetius appears very little in this book. I think that the Last part is the unique original of this novel and does not appear in the Confessions."

Book VIII deals with the last years in the life of Augustine, 40 years after the end of "Confessions."

I'm curious how many of the characters in this novel are actual historical people and how many the author has imagined, e.g. Alypius?

Manuel wrote: "Fonch wrote: "Aetius appears very little in this book. I think that the Last part is the unique original of this novel and does not appear in the Confessions."

Book VIII deals with the last years ..."

Could he write the last years of his life?

Jill wrote: "I'm curious how many of the characters in this novel are actual historical people and how many the author has imagined, e.g. Alypius?"

Yes Alypius really existed he was mentioned by John Paul I in his book "Illustrissimi: Letters from Pope John Paul I" he wrote an anecdote of his passion for thee gladiators combat i had promised given up going to this event but accidentally come into the theatre and there were gladiators combat and he tried to close the eyes but he heard the screams and the noise of the combat finally he opened the eyes and few minutes later he shout enthusiastically and the poor had to start again his resolution of giving up the gladiators combat :-).

Jill wrote: "I'm curious how many of the characters in this novel are actual historical people and how many the author has imagined, e.g. Alypius?"

Alypius was later Saint Alypius, the Bishop of Tagaste (the city where both him and Augustine were born).

Most of the characters in De Wohl's novel were real people, but of several of them he has invented their names, for Augustine does not name them in his Confessions.

For instance, Harmodius (Augustine's friend who died after being baptized) is not named by Augustine, so De Wohl must have invented his name.

It is really hilarious the way that Saint Augustine criticizes the passion of his friend Alypius for the Gladiators Combat. We must remember that the Last christian Martyr Saint Telemachus gave his life trying to avoid a Gladiator Combat.

Fonch wrote: "It is really hilarious the way that Saint Augustine criticizes the passion of his friend Alypius for the Gladiators Combat. We must remember that the Last christian Martyr Saint Telemachus gave his..."

The last Christian martyr has been killed this year!

Manuel wrote: "Fonch wrote: "It is really hilarious the way that Saint Augustine criticizes the passion of his friend Alypius for the Gladiators Combat. We must remember that the Last christian Martyr Saint Telem..."

Of the Roman Empire ;-). Saint Telemachus is considered the last christian killed during the Roman Empre.

Jill wrote: "I'm curious how many of the characters in this novel are actual historical people and how many the author has imagined, e.g. Alypius?"

About Romanianus: Augustine mentions him once in the Confessions, Book VI Chapter XIV, where he says that he had been his friend since his childhood. His son Licentius was also a real person.

Translations of this paragraph differ. The Latin original says this:
ab ineunte aetate mihi familiarissimus, which I would translate thus: very familiar to me since a very early age.

My English translation says this: from his childhood a very familiar friend of mine.

I have two Spanish translations. One says: desde nuestra niñez amigo mío muy familiar, which I would translate thus: my very familiar friend since we both were children.

The other one says: gran amigo mío desde muy niño, which can be translated thus: my very good friend since a little child.

So different translations differ about who was a child: Romanianus (English translation), Augustine, or both (one of the Spanish translations). The Latin original is ambiguous. However, it seems to be known that Romanianus did pay for part of Augustine's studies, therefore he must have been older. Therefore, the best translation of this sentence, in my opinion, would be my very good friend since [I was] a little child.

Which makes De Wohl's interpretation correct.

I just finished the book. I liked much better de Wohl's novel about Don Juan de Austria, but I believe the reason for this is that the Confessions are great book and the novel pales next to them.

Anyway, this is a well written novel and I would recommend it to a reader who wants to have a first approach to St Augustine.

I like much more "Quiet light " the novel about Saint Thomas Aquinas and even, "Citadel of Gods" about Saint Benedict Louis de Wohl i know rather well for reading completely i need reading three novels about Saint Helena, Saint Catherine of Siena and Saint Joan of Arc the problem about the Last is that it is really difficult to read a novel about Joan of Arc better than the novels of Mark Twain and Pamela Marcantel.

I think that "David king of Jerusalem" and "The imperial renagade" are the Louis de Wohl's novels that i liked less.

None of the Louis de Wohl's novel has a rating lower of three stars. An evidence that his novels are good and i like them.

I found the remark about people being like colors odd.

I was thinking why not just read the Confessions instead of a fictionalized account of the same time period, but arguments are easier to follow in the mouths of individuals.

Surely it's not licit to baptize an unconscious adult!

Why did he have to lie to Monica?

Why does there have to be a sudden emotional leap of faith rather than a gradual coming to understand and believe?

I found the end, lumping years together quickly, confusing and unnecessary.

I don't see a question on favorite quotes. Here are a few:

"the royal art of being extremely busy doing nothing"

"More than anyone else a monk must have joy in his heart."

"Only the malicious or the simpletons could say that Christianity had failed because Christian rulers had failed. They failed because they were not Christian enough."

Jill wrote: "I was thinking why not just read the Confessions instead of a fictionalized account of the same time period, but arguments are easier to follow in the mouths of individuals."

True, arguments are easier to follow as dialogues. But you lose Augustine's discussions with God :-) Sometimes they are very apposite. That's why I decided to read both books at the same time (alternating Parts). And that's the reason why I couldn't finish the novel this month. I'll read the last chapter next month.

Jill wrote: "Surely it's not licit to baptize an unconscious adult!"

Yes, it is, if you know that he wanted to be baptized before dying. In the case of Augustine's friend (Harmodius in the novel, unnamed in the Confessions) he had asked for baptism in a previous illness. Yes, some time had passed, so it was debatable, but when he recovered temporarily he said he was happy with having been baptized, so it was all for the best.

Jill wrote: "Why did he have to lie to Monica?"

But he did! He tells about it in the Confessions. In this case (as in many others) the novel is quite faithful to the autobiography.

I have ever been fascinated by Saint Ambrosius. This is one of the few Fathers of the Church are not struggled by Paul Johnson in his history of the Catholic Church. It is also interesting the evil arrian of the emperor Gratianus.

Jill wrote: "I found the remark about people being like colors odd.

I was thinking why not just read the Confessions instead of a fictionalized account of the same time period, but arguments are easier to foll..."

In some i agree with Jill i think that Louis de Wohl should tell something of the life of Saint Augustine as a bishop because you do not understand of anything except if you know a bit of history.

In part 8 you can see how the Vandals came to dominate the North of Africa. Their king Genseric (or Gaiseric) is the same king who appears in my novel The Tartessian Crown thirty years later.

My friend the historian Luis Daniel Gómez Aragones said that the fame had Atila but Genseric was more evil all is said about Atila was done by Genseric. Besides there was not a way to beat him the roman western empire and the eastern roman empire could not with him. Until they were conquered by Belisarius the vandals continued in Africa. Perhaps Genseric was the most caning King with west goth Euric.

There is another novel written by Louis de Wohl wherr the figure of Aetius is best developed "Throne of the World" the critics and the readers say that the main character is Atila but for me is the pope Leo I. This novel liked really much but i am a lover of Aetius and Leo I. I rated with five stars but i need a piece for being a master book.

/book/show/2...

I have finished this book, and given it 3.5 stars. This is my review:
/review/show...

Of course, it had to have less than The Confessions of St. Augustine, which I am still reading.

It is not a Bad rating. You have been more generous than me 😁.

I must read the "Confessions" by Saint Augustine 🤔. Perhaps i did it the next year.

I have finished. This is my review: /review/show...