Works of Thomas Hardy discussion
Far from the Madding Crowd
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Far From the Madding Crowd 4th Thread Chapter 30 - 38
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Installment 7:
Chapter 30 - 33
Chapter 30: Hot Cheeks: Tearful Eyes.
Thirty minutes later Bathsheba arrives home. Troy has just said goodbye for two days, since he’ll be visiting friends in Bath, and has kissed her again. He had in fact only hinted that he would meet her there—she had forbidden it, but was worried that he’d come anyway, which was why she so wanted to get rid of Gabriel. She sits, then jumps back up decisively, writing a final letter of refusal to Boldwood. It can’t be delivered until the morning, so to calm her uneasiness, she decides to take it to one of the servant women immediately.
Bathsheba pauses outside the kitchen and listens to Liddy, Temperance, and Mary-ann talking. Their conversation is about Troy and Bathsheba. She bursts into the kitchen and asks who they’re speaking of. After a pause Liddy tells her. Bathsheba forbids them to gossip and says she doesn’t care at all for Troy. Mary-ann says he’s a wild scamp and she’s right to hate him. Bathsheba, now in a temper, disagrees violently; but then claims again that she doesn’t care for him. She flings down the letter and goes back to the parlor with big tears in her eyes.
Alone with Liddy in the parlor, Bathsheba admits that she does in fact love Troy—she has to tell someone. She sends Liddy away, then beckons her back and asks her to swear that he’s not a bad man. Liddy begins to say that she cannot, but Bathsheba berates her for listening to others. She paces back and forth, yelling at Liddy, who begins to cry too. Bathsheba says that love is only misery for women:
"Loving is misery for women always. I shall never forgive my Maker for making me a woman, and dearly am I beginning to pay for the honor of owning a pretty face"
Then she wheels around and orders Liddy never to repeat what she’s heard. Liddy agrees with dignity, but she does say she doesn’t deserve to be yelled at for nothing. Bathsheba says she’s a companion, not just a servant. She continues to feel sorry for herself, until Liddy cries that she’ll never leave her, and will never tell anyone what Bathsheba said. She adds that Bathsheba would be a match for any man when she's in a fiery mood. She wishes she could be more like Bathsheba, even if it's unwomanly.
Edit: I've just added the illustration that accompanied the beginning of the July 1874 installment in Cornhill Magazine. I know it's a bit hard to see clearly. I apologize for that. There weren't any better images from which to choose.
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Bathsheba has largely kept a cool, controlled demeanor, but here she breaks out in a temper. Earlier she had invited the looks and attention of others, but now she recognizes how overwhelming and unpleasant such gossip can be, preventing her from being as independent as she’d like.
Just as in her relationship with Gabriel, here Bathsheba is torn between considering Liddy a true friend and confidant, and a servant who remains firmly beneath Bathsheba in terms of authority. She switches between the two whenever it best suits her.
Liddy, though, has some independent spirit of her own, and objects to being treated as a mere vessel for Bathsheba’s anger. In some ways, both these women suffer equally from the expectations and greater scrutiny to which society subjects them, even as Bathsheba enjoys far greater privilege than Liddy does.
Ultimately, Liddy does decide that loyalty to her mistress (and fellow woman) is more important to her than Bathsheba’s wild and sometimes unfair moods.
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When Bathsheba says ”I wonder sometimes if I am doomed to die in the Union�, the word “Union� is referring to “union workhouses�. The New Poor Law of 1834 obliged adjacent parishes to erect joint workhouses to which paupers were required to go for relief. So Bathsheba is worried about losing everything she has.
Amazonian � a legendary nation of warrior women in Africa who defended their race by either killing every newborn male, and by removing their own right breast at puberty to improve their skills in archery. Hence “almighty womanish�, fierce and indomitable.
Mod
We certainly see the full extent of Bathsheba's illogicality here! First she says "Everybody knows how much I hate him" and in the next breath “He’s not a wild scamp! How dare you to my face! I have no right to hate him, nor you, nor anybody. But I am a silly woman!"
Her impulsiveness shows itself here too. How did she expect her workers to react? They try to be loyal and respectful, but don't know what to say for the best! She adds "if any of you say a word against him you’ll be dismissed instantly!� so they have to be extremely careful. It is an echo of when she tried to recruit Gabriel to tell the others that she did not care for Troy - and tried to dismiss him - twice.
Bathsheba is totally at the mercy of her feelings, and has no advisor either for how to conduct relationships of any sort, whether romantic or managerial. She is in danger of alienating everyone, and losing her livelihood. She seem just as obsessed as Farmer Oak in her own way.
And what about the letter? What was her motive in writing that? It seems to be a desire for honesty, making her write a "Dear John". But who is she doing this for? It is usually seen as a coward's way out, and an alternative to a face-to-face only to make the writer feel better, not the recipient. In this case, how will Boldwood be likely to react?
Bathsheba is all over the place emotionally, as she reveals to Liddy ... poor Liddy cannot do anything right!
This is all fair enough, describing an individual character's failings. But what does it reveal about the author?
Mod
The writing is interesting, as it confirms Thomas Hardy's view not only that women are weak and infirm, but that they know they are, and that this is both an excuse and a reason. Bathsheba's final worry is that she should be thought "mannish�! (My interpretation of her meaning here is "strong-willed".)
We have many telling narrator's remarks, such as: "too much womanly redundance of speech to leave alone what was said" (i.e. unlike his default, men, women chatter on and don't know when it's best to be quiet).
We have Bathsheba's "Loving is misery for women always."
And Thomas Hardy's particularly patronising remarks about Liddy's "womanly dignity of a diminutive order" and this one which he seems to hope will slip by ...
"emphatically, at the same time bringing a few more tears into her own eyes, not from any particular necessity, but from an artistic sense of making herself in keeping with the remainder of the picture, which seems to influence women at such times".
(i.e. women's artifice, again.) I can't help feeling that:
"Can’t you read riddles? Can’t you see? Are you a woman yourself?� could well be Thomas Hardy's editorial message for this entire chapter!
I like your comparison, Bridget, between Bathsheba's relationship with Liddy and with Oak. She likes them both, and lets her hair down a bit with both of them probably more than she should. It's like she has to remind herself that they are "servants." And both are fiercely loyal to her.I think the letter was all about pushing Boldwood out of her mind as quickly as possible. She's clearly twitterpated, in love probably for the first time in her life. I do feel for her--with no, say, father barring the door and refusing to let her see the cad; with no girlfriend she can trust to warn her about his rep and encourage her to resist, she has only her very understandable feelings.
And while I do understand her feelings, I don't appreciate Hardy's silly women comments. I like what Jean said about Hardy's bias, and agree that Hardy probably believed all women acted in riddles he had difficulty reading.
Let's be honest � she's not so much in love but in passion. Because she still doesn't know really anything about Troy. And I can see why Bathsheba is all in a twist, its the lure of infatuation vs. her own logic. And she wouldn't be so upset with her servants if she was sure in her own mind.The letter to Boldwood is another rash act � I believe she feels that it will simplify things, as has her actions with Gabriel (putting him into a straight servant category).
Only thing is that she doesn't treat Gabriel or Libby as straight servants, which means that she is further conflicted by the reasonableness of their arguments.
I was thinking that Libby has more commonsense, as does Gabriel, and may even know more about Troy. Its sad that she can't come out in honestly and tell Bathsheba she may like to think Troy is an upright young man, but that he is likely not. And how in heck is it that no one has thought of Fanny and her soldier � surely someone knows what his name is.
Pamela wrote: "Let's be honest � she's not so much in love but in passion. Because she still doesn't know really anything about Troy. And I can see why Bathsheba is all in a twist, its the lure of infatuation vs...."In Chapter 15 Fanny's letter to Gabriel arrives and both Boldwood and Gabriel read how Fanny says, "...and I am happy to say I am going to be married to a young man who has been courting me for some time---Sergeant Troy..." Yet neither tells Bathsheba about this letter or what has happened to Fanny and her relationship with Troy.
Mod
Jean, thank you so much for starting us off with great insights. The four words you highlighted: illogically, impulsiveness, feelings and obsessed, are a road map for Bathsheba in this chapter where she's just all over the place.
Kathleen - I loved your use of "twitterpated". That describes so well how I picture Bathsheba moving about while she's yelling at Liddy. Like a nervous bird hoping around on a branch.
Pamela - I completely agree with your take that Bathsheba is "in lust" not "in love". As you point out, she doesn't really know Troy at all.
Bathsheba's just acting childish. The infatuation is childish, the writing of the letter is childish, treating a worker like a friend one minute and servant the next is also childish.
Mod
The writing is interesting, as it confirms Thomas Hardy's view not only that women are weak and infirm, but that they know they are, and that this..."
These are all excellent points, Jean. I've been getting the feeling lately (but especially in this chapter) that the narrator really doesn't like women. Is it too much to call the narrator misogynistic? Maybe not judging from today's chapter. I was especially irked by the idea that Liddy was bringing artificial tears to her eyes. Given how crazy Bathsheba was acting, I think Liddy had plenty of reason to be crying real tears!!
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Ann - thank you for refreshing our memory of Chapter 15. You make an excellent point. We should be questioning why no one is telling Bathsheba about Fanny and Troy.
Edit:
Pamela, you made that point too, thank you for bringing it up.
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"Bathsheba flung her hands to her face"
Illustration by Helen Paterson Allingham, originally part of the Cornhill Magazine July 1874 printing. Scanned to Victorian Web by Phillip V. Allingham
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As part of their reconciliation, Bathsheba gives Liddy a week off to visit her sister in Yalbury. Bathsheba decides to visit Liddy there, in order to avoid Boldwood as he returns. She’s walked three miles when suddenly she sees Boldwood over the hill.
He doesn’t look up until they’re almost face to face. Bathsheba falters and blushes, and he asks if she’s afraid of him. She says she's not afraid and he comments about how her demeanor contrasts with his own deep feelings of love for her
"A thing strong as death. No dismissal by a hasty letter affects that"
He says he’s accepted that she won’t marry him. Confusedly, Bathsheba bids him goodbye, but as she withdraws, he asks heavily if her answer to his proposal is really final. He is quite broken up by her refusal "I am beyond myself about this and am mad". He begs her for pity, and not to throw him off. She says that’s impossible, since she never had him. He reminds her of her encouragement: at the washing pool, in the barn shearing and lastly at her home, and of course the valentine. She says, that was a childish game of which she now repents. Boldwood regrets how her jest has now turned to earnestness:
”I took for earnest what you insist was jest, and now this that I pray to be jest you say is awful wretched earnest�
He bemoans how much torture that trick has caused him—she’s the only love he’s ever had. Then, again he asks what happened to her conviction that she would grow to care for him. Bathsheba repeats that she never promised him anything, and asks him to think more kindly of her, and to forgive her:
”How was I to know that what is pastime to all other men was death to you. Have reason, do, and think more kindly of me!�
Still, he claims she must be heartless, though he wavers between renouncing her and begging her to change her mind. Bathsheba repeats that she’s not what he thinks her to be, a result of an unprotected childhood in a cold world. Resentfully, Boldwood says that’s no reason—she does have the ability to love, and he knows where it’s turned.
He begins to rage about Troy, who stole her in his absence. Now people laugh at him. He has no further claim on her, Boldwood says, though he’s ashamed. This is all woman’s folly, he adds, but she replies that it’s unmanly to attack a woman this way: there’s no one who can fight her battles for her. He accuses Troy of kissing her, and she tries to deny it, but she can’t. Boldwood curses him, while Bathsheba asks him not to, as she loves Troy truly. But Boldwood continues to rage violence against Troy and tells her to keep Troy away from him. He turns his face and leaves her.
Boldwood thinks Troy is back with his regiment in Melchester, but Bathsheba knows that Troy is about to return to Weatherbury, and fears a quarrel between him and Boldwood. She paces up and down and then sits down on some rocks to think, the dark earth and clouds contrasting with the sparkling stars to the east.
Mod
Bathsheba hasn’t quite reached the maturity of dealing with the consequences of her actions directly; now, though, she’s forced to confront the man whom she knows she hasn’t treated fairly, even though Boldwood too has been unfair in being overly insistent on having Bathsheba marry him despite her evident feelings.
We see that Boldwood (like Bathsheba) has a strong sense of pride, though unlike Bathsheba he is willing to undercut it. Once again Bathsheba has to pay the price for the thoughtless game she played—a game from which Liddy, too, is not exempt.
Boldwood seems to want to recapture his pride and insist on his self-sufficiency and independence from Bathsheba, but his feelings for her continually thwart such an attempt, as he tries to get Bathsheba to change her mind. For Bathsheba his stubbornness is yet another price she has to pay, preventing the end of the painful conflict.
Boldwood doesn't accept Bathsheba's explanation that she is cold because of her unprotected childhood. Boldwood is able to see while he’s been gone, Bathsheba has changed from her cool and unpassionate character thanks to the flirtations of Troy. For her part, Bathsheba feels attacked once again, held to a higher standard because of her sex, even while she’s unable to defend herself like a man could.
Now Bathsheba recognizes a potential conflict brewing between two of her three suitors.
Mod
Much of my favorite writing comes from words spoken by Boldwood. I thought Hardy was masterful here, as he really got my sympathy up for this poor jilted man. Passages like: ”You were nothing to me once, and I was contented; you are now nothing to me again, and how different the second nothing is from the first!�
And also, this one: � It is the having been so near claiming you for my own that makes this denial so hard to bear. How nearly you promised me! But I don’t speak now to move your heart, and make you grieve because of my pain; it is no use, that. I must bear it; my pain would get no less by paining you. � It's that last part, where Boldwood doesn’t want his pain to cause Bathsheba pain, that really tears at my heart for Boldwood.
What does everyone make of this observation by the narrator?
� The most tragic woman is cowed by a tragic man, and although Boldwood was, in vehemence and glow, nearly her own self rendered into another sex, Bathsheba’s cheek quivered. �
I had not thought to compare Boldwood and Bathsheba as foils of one another. Is that what the narrator is doing? Or is this something else? Again, the narrator has many unkind things to say about women.
The last thing I want to comment on is when Bathsheba says there’s nobody to fight her battles, did anyone else think of Gabriel? Seems to me he fights for her all the time.
Thank you to Ann for the reminder that both Gabriel and Boldwood know about Troy. It seems out of character that Gabriel hasn't told her, and I wonder why Boldwood didn't bring it up in this exchange?Great job with the summary of this emotion-filled chapter, Bridget. I'm not sure Boldwood and Bathsheba are as alike as the narrator says. I suppose they are both inexperienced and naive. It was pretty egotistical for him to think Bathsheba would marry him if it wasn't for Troy (even if it's true). And I didn't like the way he acted like she should marry him, like he had a right to her. What she did with the Valentine was cruel, but I'm finding it hard to feel sorry for him now. I guess Gabriel is the grown up here. Except ... again, why didn't he tell her about Troy?
Pamela wrote: "Let's be honest � she's not so much in love but in passion. Because she still doesn't know really anything about Troy."That's quite true, and it's also true of Boldwood's infatuation with Bathsheba. (And fairly considered, it's also true of Gabriel's initial desire to marry Bathsheba, after very little interaction with her --though by now, his feelings have been tried and refined by a longer acquaintance.) That kind of feeling of strong initial attraction (usually with a significant physical component) is real and can very much influence behavior, even for otherwise smart people; but it's not love and not a solid basis for marriage.
Based on what I've read about and from this era, both in fiction and nonfiction. my impression is that Victorian people had an abstract idea of romantic "love" as a good basis for marriage. But because the two sexes didn't interact much in ways that would enable men and women to form a solid idea of each other's character, many people simply assumed that initial attraction to a person's looks and superficial charms actually was "love," and proceeded to act on the assumption that it was. Like George Eliot, Hardy doesn't put much stock in that idea.
I'm not really sure why neither Gabriel nor Boldwood have told Bathsheba about Troy's relations with Fanny, unless it's just out of a misguided desire to protect the latter couple's privacy. But the fact that they didn't does absolve Bathsheba of the idea (which I think one reader implied earlier in the discussion) that she's callously trying to steal Fanny's man. Despite her faults, that's not something that I think Bathsheba would knowingly do.
I stand up for Boldwood, here. He is totally in the right and Bathsheba has acted disgracefully by spending time alone in the woods with Troy, allowing his to take incredibly dangerous chances with her life just to impress her, and then by allowing him to kiss her.Boldwood was a man of integrity. The first time she saw him, Bathsheba thought him handsome with his "Roman" features and "gentlemanly" appearance and attitude. In Chapter XII the narrator says of him: "He was erect in attitude, and quiet in demeanour. one characteristic pre-eminently marked him -- dignity."
Boldwood is just in blaming her for all the distress. She sent the Valentine to him which said "Marry Me"; and then following there were three distinct occasions where she misrepresented her feelings toward him. Boldwood lists them: "O sweet--how dearly you spoke to me behind the spear-bed at the washing-pool, and in the barn at the shearing, and that dearest last time in the evening at your home! Where are your pleasant words all gone. . . Really forgotten?---really?"
I think it surprising that he does not turn to her in real anger, but instead directs anger toward the more successful suitor, Troy. We all want to think better of women as a whole; today we rebel against the idea that women are as shameless as Hardy depicts.
But this is his novel. This is a very flawed woman Thomas Hardy has given us. I am sorry Boldwood feels his honor has been lost forever. Instead, it is Bathsheba who deserves that accusation. He calls Troy a "freak" and then says, "Dazzled by brass and scarlet--O, Bathsheba--this is woman's folly indeed!"
Like Bridget, I noticed the tragic and beautiful language that Hardy gives Boldwood in the chapter. I do feel that Boldwood goes too far, though, when he demands to know whether Troy had kissed Bathsheba.
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I'm glad you said this, Kathleen, because that means I'm not the only one who was surprised the narrator compared them. And, as you said, even though Boldwood is so much older than Bathsheba, when it comes to love they are both naive. They are also both obsessed with who they love, too bad its not each other. I also like your thought that Gabriel is the only adult!
As Werner pointed out, the Victorians had very different ideas of "love" that lead them to idealize those they were attracted to, instead of finding a deeper meaning and connection. Thank you for that reminder, Werner. I liked the comparison of Hardy and George Eliot both being opposed to that sort of love (me too, by the way!). I think Jean mentioned previously that Hardy was often compared to George Eliot and that one reviewer assumed George Eliot wrote FFTMC.
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Lee - I'm glad to see you standing up for Boldwood. As I said, this chapter created a lot of sympathy for me when it comes to Boldwood. You make so many good points about how Bathsheba has wronged him. I do think Boldwood - at times - goes too far, as Erich and Kathleen mentioned. He goes so quickly from being dignified to being obsessed with Bathsheba. But he doesn't deserve the treatment he gets from Bathsheba.
I agree with you completely when you say This is a very flawed woman Thomas Hardy has given us. In so many instances, I find myself often wondering, should Bathsheba have known better? If Troy hadn't come along, would she have married Boldwood? She seems to indicate yes in this chapter. I can see Boldwood as a victim of Bathsheba's capriciousness, but I can also see Bathsheba as a victim of Troy's rakishness. Though I also see your point that Bathsheba puts herself in unnecessary, risky situations with Troy. Very flawed indeed.
On to the next chapter . . . .
Mod
Weatherbury is silent at night, and the farm is occupied only by Mary-ann. After eleven she awakens with an uneasy feeling, and looks out the window to see, in the paddock, a ghostlike figure seize a horse and lead it out. She thinks it's either a woman or a gypsy man, and of course assumes it’s a gypsy because no woman would be out in the paddock at night. She rushes to Coggan’s, the nearest house, for help. He calls Gabriel, who is lodging with him again. They go to the paddock and find the horse gone. Then they hear a trotting horse over Weatherbury Hill. Gabriel decides to pursue it, but Coggan says their horses are too heavy for a chase—Boldwood’s would be better.
Gabriel and Coggan hop Boldwood’s hedge and capture Boldwood’s horses. They ride to the hill, but the gypsies that had camped there are gone. They continue straight, then Coggan suggests tracking Dainty (their horse) and the thief. They see a set of tracks that suggests a gallop; after riding awhile, they see another set suggesting a canter; then finally another at a trot, and a final a set implying that Dainty, is lame.
Coggan and Gabriel race to the toll gate, and, seeing Dainty and its driver approach, ask the gatekeeper to keep the gate closed. When the keeper’s lantern casts a light over the driver—it’s Bathsheba. She’s driving to Bath, she says: she had to leave at once. Gabriel says they thought the horse was stolen, and she says that was foolish—she couldn’t wake Mary-ann or get into the house, so she simply took the coach-house key and left. She thanks them for the trouble, but says she’s gotten a stone out from Dainty’s shoe and can manage quite well from now on. After Bathsheba leaves, Coggan and Gabriel decide to keep this story quiet.
Bathsheba had decided she could either keep Troy away from Weatherbury, or give up Troy entirely. She decided to go see Troy himself, asking him to help her in her resolve. She’d wanted to prevent anyone from knowing she’d gone to Bath at all—a plan which clearly hadn’t worked.
Mod
The potential conflict that Gabriel and Coggan hoped to resolve proves to be another kind of affair entirely, though one that’s no less secretive and mysterious. Bathsheba maintains her cool and her position of authority as she scoffs at the idea that the horse would have been stolen. Still, Gabriel and Coggan’s decision not to say anything reflects their understanding that Bathsheba has more to hide than she’d like to admit.
Bathsheba’s decision turns out to be the result of her meditation following the encounter with Boldwood. Bathsheba indulges a little in dreams, but her rational side returns, though only to the extent of proposing a resolution to the conflict that, the narrator suggests, is not exactly foolproof.
Mod
Here we have yet one more instance of Gabrial protecting Bathsheba. Actually, it’s two instances. First he thinks he’s rescuing her stolen property (Dainty). Second, he protects her reputation by suggesting to Coggan that they keep the events of that night secret.
We also see Bathsheba seriously contemplate what to do after her interaction with Boldwood, and once again she acts rashly. Logic and reason are not virtues that Bathsheba possesses. She’s bound to follow her desires wherever they take her.
When she allows herself to daydream about what her life would have been had Troy been Boldwood, the narrator refers to her as “a girl�. For most of the novel the narrator has been referring to her as “a woman�. Or rather equating her behavior with “woman’s� behavior. But I think calling her a girl is accurate. Often, Bathsheba acts more like a girl than woman, especially when it comes to men.
I like your comparison to a car chase, Bridget! Yes, this is Bathsheba acting rashly again. It does make her an interesting character though, doesn't it!I'm thinking about what Werner said above regarding the Victorian view of love. So interesting. And true here that these people have little opportunity to find out more about each other's true character. I think that's what surprised me about Boldwood--how could he make such assumptions? I guess there wasn't much opportunity to do more than assume.
Lee wrote: "I stand up for Boldwood, here. He is totally in the right and Bathsheba has acted disgracefully by spending time alone in the woods with Troy, allowing his to take incredibly dangerous chances with..."I agree Lee. While I feel sorry for Boldwood, its showing the lack of maturity I was expecting. And as Werner said, very often it is the romance that sent the Victorians into marriage. Its not a good foundation for a romance.
Mod
First, many thanks to Bridget for the excellent summary and comment on the highly charged ch. 31!
Bridget asks ”What does everyone make of this observation by the narrator?
“The most tragic woman is cowed by a tragic man, and although Boldwood was, in vehemence and glow, nearly her own self rendered into another sex, ...�
To me the second part follows on from the interchange between Liddy and Bathsheba at the end of the previous chapter, where Bathsheba is worried that she might appear “mannish�. Thomas Hardy’s view is that women are creatures of emotion, thus if a man shows much emotion then he is behaving in a feminine way. The first part about being “cowed� is also part of this view of women as weaker, because self-evidently if a man shows emotion, then obviously it will be stronger, more powerful emotion.
“Bathsheba says there’s nobody to fight her battles, did anyone else think of Gabriel? Seems to me he fights for her all the time.�
He does indeed! And whilst we can think of Bathsheba as variously spoilt, or perverse, the idea of anyone managing the farm well, insisting that they will make all the decisions without advice, treating the workers badly by flying into a temper and saying contradictory things within a couple of sentences, but also with this ”I have no-one to advise me� wanting a knight in shining armour to protect her simply does not cohere.
I’m afraid that with Bathsheba Thomas Hardy is more concerned to put forward his views of women than to make a believable character. He could get away with this in a serial, but once it became published as a novel we see the discrepancies.
When we try to make sense of her, or when film-makers try to present a believable character, it is necessary to simplify. But just 3 comments within a few moments by Bathsheba show the inconsistency:
“There is little honour to the woman in that speech.�
“t childish game of an idle minute."
“I am only a girl—do not speak to me so!�
She also pleads that she has a cold nature because of her childhood - and contradicts that by pleading that she loves Troy “true� i.e. fully and as a woman.
It is not just the author who is presenting Bathsheba as a child or as a woman, according to what is convenient, but the character herself! This is denial pushed too far, I believe. We know that Bathsheba is deceiving herself, in how she hopes others will react to what she does, but her view of herself cannot change so rapidly from moment to moment. Either she is deceitful to others, (which Thomas Hardy has emphasised she is not) or psychologically such a fluid view of oneself is not plausible.
What is much more believable is that Thomas Hardy not only blurs the lines between girl and woman � not being consistent with her age is one example - but is just using this character as a vehicle for his own theories. Compare her with either Gabriel or Boldwood (not Troy, as he too is serving another symbolic function, so is not always very well rounded. e.g. in the impressionistic chapter 28). Both Gabriel and Boldwood are completely believable characters. As Lee has said, “Boldwood is a man of integrity�.
Yes, they have moods; they are not perfect by any means and do not always behave as they wish to, but this is essentially human nature and they act within their characters as they are depicted. Bridget pointed out the part where however much he was hurting, Boldwood tried to behave so as not to hurt Bathsheba � a sign of true love rather than obsession. And we are constantly seeing the sacrifices Gabriel makes for her.
We have felt for all the characters, including their foibles, including Bathsheba in one of her guises. We have not really had an anti-hero(ine) such as Becky Sharp, (Vanity Fair) so that is not an issue. But when their personality switches about for no reason, we need to look at what bee the author might have in their bonnet! Here it is unmistakable:
“Bathsheba, in spite of her mettle, began to feel unmistakable signs that she was inherently the weaker vessel. She strove miserably against this femininity which would insist upon supplying unbidden emotions in stronger and stronger current.�
Thomas Hardy does not try to make his heroine behave in a manner consistent with her personality. What would be the point, when he is so sure that females are creatures of emotion? Because of this we are unlikely to have a coordinated and consistent view of Bathsheba but only the one we individually choose to bring to the character, and to imprint on her.
To me, she is a kind of cipher.
Mod
Several have commented on why neither Gabriel nor Boldwood have (apparently) told Bathsheba about Troy and Fanny. Whilst the cynic in me wants to say “it's for dramatic effect� � as surely this will lead somewhere? - I also think it would be a mean-spirited thing to do. Gabriel particularly has told her of Troy's bad reputation with females, and even Liddy has said so. Would he feel it his place to give details? This would effectively be naming and shaming another woman, albeit she had also been duped. I don’t think either would think this was honourable behaviour. Even now, people would hesitate. Would you tell her?
By the way � a little more on this �
Another thing Kathleen and other people have wondered is why we have not heard of Fanny recently. Well one of the parts Thomas Hardy had to edit out of the long shearing supper chapter, (ch. 12) because of Leslie Stephen's advice against being too prurient, was that Bailiff Pennyways said he had seen Fanny Robin in Melchester “too well-off to be anything but a ruined woman�.
Also Boldwood spoke of her as having “lost her character� and around now Liddy said Troy was “a walking ruin to honest girls�.
So these cuts go some way to explaining why Fanny seems more out of the picture than we might have expected.
Mod
Werner raised the idea of the Victorians� view of love, and we do have an idea of what many Victorian novels portray: love as a romantic ideal - as Bridget also identifies. In a way this is not so very different from romantic novels of today, which can include a fair dollop of highly unrealistic fantasy.
But we do have to add a caveat here. It is true that the Victorian view of love was a romantic ideal, but those from moneyed classes also had marriages which were approved for reasons other than love. Suitable partners would be selected from quite a narrow band of society.
In a similar way, country marriages had similar restrictions. Country people mistrusted “flash types� from towns and cities. They hoped to find partners from within their own farming or pastoral community (or a neighbouring one) and class. And for country people essentially this was a practical arrangement. Their lives were governed by the seasons, the seasonal duties and chores, and by birth and death of livestock. They were under no illusions about “romance�. The birth of young was a necessary part of Nature, and would always be so. This also applied to human babies.
It was better if a young couple were married first, but in a Dorset (or other county) working class country community at this time, if a baby was born out of wedlock then that was part of Nature.
If you read Tess of the D’Urbervilles with us, you will remember the dual aspect of beliefs held by these country people. There were strongly held traditional views, as this one, but allied to this were superstitions such as the milk in a dairy going sour if one of the milkmaids was pregnant � or hundreds more! Another unique influence was that of the Church’s teachings, which they would variously hold as true. Just as in the towns and cities, some country people were devout, and some paid lip service.
Even right at the beginning we learn of Gabriel Oak:
“On Sundays he was a man of misty views, rather given to postponing, ...—that is, he went to church, but yawned privately by the time the congregation reached the Nicene creed, and thought of what there would be for dinner when he meant to be listening to the sermon.�
Tess too, tried hard to obey the parson’s teachings. You will remember that (view spoiler)
At no time did they condemn a baby being borne out of wedlock, but rallied round as a community and protected their own. This is perhaps not a view we might have of “Victorians�, because our knowledge is often from fiction which portrays the middle classes in towns and cities, rather than the working classes: the “rustics� Thomas Hardy said he wrote about.
This is why ch. 6 “The Chase� in Tess of the D’Urbervilles, and ch. 28 "The Hollow Amid the Ferns" in Far From the Madding Crowd are so very clever, and full of symbolism and suggestion rather than anything explicit. Even the titles are double-entendres. They can have extremely wide interpretations.
A more complete view of 19th century sexuality in the working class can be gained from social history, e.g. this looks like a good overview of a similar county:
As it says, “we do not know a great deal about lower-class sexuality in nineteenth-century England. There are studies of bourgeois desires and sensibilities, but little on the mores of the vast bulk of the population.�
We must be careful not to oversimplify, and also to bear in mind the vast hypocrisy of the Victorian age. By and large country people were more direct and without artifice, as Thomas Hardy has said. But in much of Victorian society looking respectable and an appearance of propriety was paramount, and could mask a lot of behaviour which would have been considered sinful.
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Sorry for the long posts ... Bridget has covered the human side to this, and Bathsheba’s self deception or denial really well, so I’ll just add a couple of extras.
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and a little later “Coggan carried an old pinchbeck repeater which he had inherited from some genius in his family; and it now struck one.�
Pinchbeck is an imitation gold alloy 5 parts copper and 1 part zinc, often used for watch-cases. Is it pertinent that this is imitation, not “pure� high carat gold?
A Repeater is a pocket watch that strikes the hours.
Time plays an important part all the way through this chapter.
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“Yalbury� is in real life Yellowham Wood (“Yell’am Wood�)
When Gabriel Oak and Jan Coggan follow the tracks of Bathsheba’s horse and trap, believing them to have been stolen by gipsies camped in “Weatherbury Bottom�, they go past the real life West Hill Cottage. This is a former toll house south of Sherborne at the junction of the Dorchester (“Casterbridge�) A352 and Blandford (“Shottesford�) A3030 roads.
Interestingly Thomas Hardy uses the correct name for the city of Bath. I assume that this is because he is only just beginning to invent Wessex, and at the moment it only comprises Dorset. Bath though is not in Dorset, but in Somerset.
Bionic Jean wrote: "Several have commented on why neither Gabriel nor Boldwood have (apparently) told Bathsheba about Troy and Fanny.... This would effectively be naming and shaming another woman, albeit she had also been duped. I don’t think either would think this was honourable behaviour."Jean, that's a very good point, and one that I hadn't considered in the same light. It does make perfect sense as an explanation!
Thanks, Jean, for clarifying social roles in sex,love and marriage. I too was thinking social class ruled the day, not romantic love. I wonder if the idea of romantic love was popular in novels of the Victorians precisely because it was impractical in real life.
Werner wrote: "Bionic Jean wrote: "Several have commented on why neither Gabriel nor Boldwood have (apparently) told Bathsheba about Troy and Fanny.... This would effectively be naming and shaming another woman, ..."Bathsheba was worried about Fanny from the night of the fire. While Fanny wanted Gabriel to wait to tell about her upcoming marriage to Troy, when Troy becomes involved with Bathsheba, both Gariel and Boldwood should wonder what happened to Fanny. It isn't necessarily "shaming" Fanny. And yes, at that point, I would have told Bathsheba.
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"I’m afraid that with Bathsheba Thomas Hardy is more concerned to put forward his views of women than to make a believable character. He could get away with this in a serial, but once it became published as a novel we see the discrepancies."
I was glad you also gave us some "real life" information about Yalbury - Yellowham Wood. Its fun to look up the real life towns you mention and orient myself in Hardy's Wessex by looking at real maps.
Also, good catch with the time pieces, I missed that reading through.
okay, get ready everyone for the next chapter . . . .
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After a week, there’s still no sign of Bathsheba, then Mary-ann receives a letter from her saying she’ll be kept there by business another week. The oat harvest begins. One day the workers have stopped to rest when they see Cain running towards them.
Cain is in his Sunday clothes. He’s injured his finger and taken time off to heal. Poorgrass remarks that it was a bad leg that let him read the Pilgrim’s Progress, while Coggan adds that his own father put his arm out of joint to court his future wife. As Cain runs toward them, he is eating from the bread and ham he is carrying. He arrives nearly choking on his food, and through much coughing and hacking says that he’s been in Bath and seen the mistress with a soldier, arm in arm like a true courting couple.
He coughs—a gnat has flown down his throat—and Coggan gives him some cider so he can continue the story, while the others berate him as he coughs and sneezes. His family has always been excitable, Cain says, and the others agree. Moon adds that Cain’s grandfather was quite clever. But Gabriel interrupts impatiently to ask Cain to continue. He thinks the soldier was Troy. He saw them sit on a park bench, and saw Bathsheba begin to cry. When they left,
”her eyes were shining and she was as white as a lily; and they looked into one another’s faces, as far-gone friendly as a man and woman can be�
When Gabriel asks what else he saw, he begins to talk about the city life in Bath. On Gabriel’s prodding, Cain describes Bathsheba’s beautiful dress and hair. After lush descriptions of the houses, shops, and people of Bath, Cain finally concludes that he didn’t see Bathsheba again.
Gabriel is exasperated but asks if he can swear that Miss Everdene was in fact the woman he saw. Cain is wary of swearing that it’s “damn true� and, as Poorgrass sternly rebukes him for his language, begins to cry. Gabriel, shaking his head, turns back to work. When they’re alone, though, Coggan asks him why it matters whom she’s with, if it can’t be him “That’s the very thing I say to myself,� said Gabriel.�
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Among these men, it’s difficult for a story to ever get told without interruptions, delays, and digressions, as each small event reminds someone of something else. Cain’s arrival is meant as a humorous set piece—he may have serious, consequential news to report, but such drama and intensity are deflated and given a picaresque touch by Cain’s ridiculous behavior and almost slapstick plight.
As is often the case, the locals understand and describe each other as part of a long, generational line, a web of family connections and histories. Gabriel, in turn, has little patience for such digressions—he has had his own trepidations about Bathsheba’s relationship with Troy.
Although Coggan participates eagerly in the local gossip, he is also a good friend to Gabriel: he recognizes Gabriel’s feelings for Bathsheba and tries to cheer him up.
I realize Gabriel is trying to protect Bathsheba when he insists she was not “over intimate� with Troy. But I have to wonder if that’s true. Bathsheba has spent two weeks alone, in Bath with Troy. And she’s in a very fancy dress “gold color silk gown trimmed with black lace�, with her hair brushed out. It doesn't sound like the a prim and proper image to me.
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Lammas - also known as “Loaf Mass Day�, is a Christian holiday celebrated in some English speaking countries on August 1st. Bread would be made from the new crop and brought to the church for blessing.
"felon" - We are used to the word “felon� referring to a criminal, but here Cainy is using the medical definition. An infection that occurs within the soft tissue of the fingertip, usually caused by bacteria.
Gilpin’s rig � alludes to a William Cowper humorous ballad, “The Diverting History of John Gilpin� (1782). An interesting tidbit of trivia, John Caldecott (as in The Caldecott Medal) illustrated this ballad, and the image of Gilpin riding his horse, is the image used on the Caldecott Awards. Here's a link to the ballad, and its illustrations.
under your bushel . . . .: modestly, discreetly. In Matthew 5:15, Jesus says, “Neither do men light a candle and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick: and it giveth light unto all that are in the house� � meaning, share/show your gifts. Because it is socially unacceptable to boast of one’s merits Poorgrass affects to chastise himself (‘under your bushel Joseph�)
water springs up out of the earth ready boiled: Bath is situated in an extinct volcano and is famous, from Roman times, for its hot springs. They were thought to have healing properties, which could be why Cainy went to Bath, to heal his finger.
**Hardy visited Bath with Emma Gifford, his fiancée, in June 1873 and then in the July 1874 installment Bathsheba flies off by night to meet her lover in Bath.
Club-Walking: an annual group walk (as in Tess) through towns and countryside by the members of a parish benefit club, or “friendly society�, usually providing welfare, sick allowances, etc. White Tuesday: otherwise known as Whit-Tuesday, the first Tuesday after Whit-Sunday, the second Sunday after the feast of the Ascension � generally known as Whitsuntide, a traditional time for club-walkings.
wish her cake dough - proverbially, ‘to wish my cake were dough again� is to ‘wish I had never married�
”Shimei the son of Gera� - alludes to Samuel 16:5-8, in which King David is stoned and cursed by Shimei: “he came forth, and cursed still as he came�. Poorgrass’s sense of melodrama is getting the better of him here.
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I've been thinking that Troy might be a fortune seeker as well as a seducer. He's just a poor soldier, so he might be looking for a wealthy woman like Bathsheba who has land and a prosperous farm. Bathsheba is aware of her beauty and her wealth, and has three suitors. While she is very attracted to Troy, I doubt if she would have spent two weeks with him without a ring on her finger. This scene in the small village shows the camaraderie among the villagers. It also illustrates that everyone knows everyone else's business, and it would be difficult to keep a secret.
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Ann - I think you would have been a very good, kind and wise friend to Bathsheba. 😊 Someone she badly needs ... I know how much you love this novel, so it's really great to have your input.
Liddy is no use as she is basically a servant, and only a close friend or relative would be privileged enough to be able to confide about Fanny and Troy, without their motives being misunderstood. Even then, Bathsheba (or any female with a crush on him) would be likely to blame the woman. 🙄 Certainly at this time the idea of running away with a soldier would have been sinful. I mentioned the deleted judgemental comment from Bailiff Pennyways about seeing Fanny in Melchester (Salisbury) being “too well-off to be anything but a ruined woman�.
That would be the general view, that she was now a "kept woman". An exact parallel to this is Thomas Hardy's poem "The Ruined Maid" (which we will probably have as a weekly poem soonish.)
Perhaps my post on the attitude to sex, love and marriage of country people in 19th century Dorset was not clear - I'm sorry. I tried to give an overview to show how they were so immersed in the daily farming routine of birth and death, that babies born out of wedlock were not a reason per se to condemn a young woman, as it would be in an English town or city at this time. It was all part of "nature" in their view, and the young couple would be urged to marry, for permanence and security, and to satisfy the church's teachings.
However, this is not the case here. Prostitution, or any young women running off with a young man considered to be a rogue, would still be very much frowned on. This is why Bathsheba (as you rightly said), was so concerned about Fanny running off on the night of the fire. She wanted Fanny to be "rescued" before it was too late. We have remarked though about how Bathsheba has not seemed to worry about Fanny after that. It seems to have been an impulse, because she felt responsible as Fanny's employer, but from what we read, it only seemed to last for 2 days, and then the thought never bothered her again.
Interestingly critics also wonder about the point in Gabriel's meeting with Fanny that evening, (before he realised who she was), as so far that has not led anywhere, and he decided not to act on it.
Gabriel keeps a lot of things to himself, and we know how overly loyal he is to Bathsheba - Bridget gave another instance today. Yes, ideally "both Gabriel and Boldwood should wonder what happened to Fanny", but it would be against Gabriel's nature to investigate, and although Boldwood has been in some way responsible for Fanny in the past, now he fears she has “lost her character� (another part Thomas Hardy had to delete) and so he can do nothing for her without compromising himself. Also, he is totally taken up with thoughts of Bathsheba, so would probably not be thinking of a child he had once tried to be kind to.
But the point about both these men, of slightly different classes, is that they are both upright and honourable. They would not indulge in gossip about another woman, nor could they help her without suspicion attaching to themselves. In the 21st century we might not attach any blame to Fanny, thinking her only "crime" is in being naive. However, I'm afraid that if she stays away and does not return, 19th century country people would feel judgemental towards her, and consider that she had loose morals. An apt saying from the time they would use, is "she's no better than she ought to be".
Bionic Jean wrote: "I’m afraid that with Bathsheba Thomas Hardy is more concerned to put forward his views of women than to make a believable character.... We know that Bathsheba is deceiving herself, in how she hopes others will react to what she does, but her view of herself cannot change so rapidly from moment to moment. Either she is deceitful to others, (which Thomas Hardy has emphasised she is not) or psychologically such a fluid view of oneself is not plausible."I agree that Hardy's portrayal of Bathsheba is very much governed by his stereotypical prejudices about the supposed universal feminine character (emotional, capricious, vain, etc.). And there's no question that Bathsheba is mercurial, inclined to lie to herself at times, and represents herself to others in inconsistent ways without being knowingly deceitful. But I'm not convinced that this makes her unbelievable as a character.
Cultural stereotypes are closely tied to cultural expectations; and cultures systematically socialize kids growing up in them to internalize and conform to the expectations. So in real life, a lot of people of both sexes to some degree act out the expectations, and view themselves in ways shaped by their socialization. So Bathsheba's own self-image is conflicted, between these expectations of "femininity" versus her perception that she has more "mannish" capabilities. (And she doesn't have the knowledge or vocabulary to conceptualize it that way, or to express it even to herself.) So her self image really is more than a little confused, and there are plenty of times when that shows. Personally, I suspect that sort of confusion wasn't uncommon among women in Bathsheba's time (and to some degree even today). If Hardy really did model Bathsheba on his maternal aunt, that lady may have been one of those who experienced the same sort of internal conflict.
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Yes, it's not just critics' opinions that he did ... bear with me a moment.
The model is Martha Sharpe (nee Hand; his mother's maiden name was Jemima Hand). Her history is here:
Florence Emily Hardy, who as we know wrote Thomas Hardy's biographies largely from his own account, talks of it but I can't find the reference. 🙄 The information is straight from the author himself though, so I think we should believe it! When talking of Bathsheba Everdene he said "Martha Sharpe, my handsome aunt from whom I drew her."
The bio I am currently reading - a good one from 1965 by Carl J. Weber - says:
"His heroine Bathsheba Everdene was patterned after a deceased aunt who had lived at Puddletown; Hardy remembered going to see 'my aunt Sharpe' when he was a boy."
Since he was so young, it is unlikely young Tom's memory of her behaviour would have been anything more than an impression at best, rather than being aware (as much as any of us are) that ... "that lady may have been one of those who experienced the same sort of internal conflict." Of course she may have been an emotionally conflicted woman, but his "patterning" may have consisted merely on his aunt's appearance and a few fond memories.
Interesting thoughts though - Bridget may well like to respond to these! 😊 I just thought I'd better quote chapter and verse, since there seemed to be some doubt in your mind.
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"I myself must confess I have no liking for the perfect woman of fiction ... The majority of women are quite worthy enough in nature to satisfy any reasonable being, but I venture to think that they too frequently do not exhibit that nature truly and simply ... I had an idea that Bathsheba, with all her errors was not devoid of honesty of this kind; it is however a point for readers to decide. I must add that no satire on the sex is intended in any case by the imperfections of my heroines" - Thomas Hardy
(My bold, and I have to add that the patronising attitude of this defence fair took my breath away! But be that as it may ... )
This was what Thomas Hardy wrote in defence of Bathsheba, after there had been widespread criticism of the character on both sides of the Atlantic. One anonymous reviewer in New York, who was revealed to be Henry James, said:
"We cannot say that we we either like or understand Bathsheba."
The Westminster review in London said:
"She flirts with Gabriel Oak in the most heartless manner."
Then, as now, it is clear that views vary from readers' disapproval of Bathsheba, to an idea of her immaturity; from an idea of her being misunderstood to an idea that she is not psychologically plausible. I think Thomas Hardy was probably wise to leave well alone, and to say it is "a point for readers to decide".
As I said before, we all bring our own ideas to the character, and imprint them on Bathsheba. I am personally very glad that the females in his future novels were more consistently drawn than this one.
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Thank you Bridget for your excellent summary and thoughts. I too really enjoyed this chapter and was smiling - or even giggling - throughout. As you say we really needed that humour, and how skilled Thomas Hardy is, in using a humorous episode to draw out tension! That is not what we expect at all.
I had an odd thought ... Bridget helpfully explained a couple of sayings, and another one occurred to me when Cain Ball kept getting something stuck in his throat so he could not tell his story.
There is an English expression that when you don't want to say something it "sticks in your craw" (or gullet). I think this euphemism might quite literally be true of Cain here. He would not want to tell tales about his mistress. Perhaps it's a secret joke by Thomas Hardy? 😁
(Any problems with the Dorset dialect, please just shout out, anyone.)
Bionic Jean wrote: "Another thought which may help people to decide about Bathsheba's veracity in their own minds, is this, also from "the horse's mouth":"I myself must confess I have no liking for the perfect woman..."
Good thoughts, Jean. I have to remember to be careful in my replies and not accidentally post any "spoilers" for this novel or any of his others when talking about the female protagonists. Thank you and Bridget for all your hard work on this group!
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Not to worry - you haven't! Just for a minute I thought you had ... It's so easy to do and I'd message anyone just to ask politely to edit it but you have been very careful; thank you 😊It's so great to have comments both from those who know the novel well, and also by those for whom it is a first read. I love this!
The chapter was very entertaining! One thing I haven't noticed in the comments yet: I liked how the prejudices and social distinctions play out in Cainy's story, such as the preacher with the fancy rings and Matthew Moon's feeling sorry for the local preacher in not having lavish trappings like that. But Gabriel Oak is as usual a voice of common wisdom: "Perhaps he's made of different stuff than to wear them." Perhaps a preacher wound up in worldly elegance is not always the best thing.
Works of Thomas Hardy
Books mentioned in this topic
Far From the Madding Crowd (other topics)Hardy of Wessex: His Life and Literary Career (other topics)
The Trumpet-Major (other topics)
History of the wars occasioned by the French Revolution: from the commencement of hostilities in 1792, to the end of the year 1816: embracing a ... of most of the public... Volume 2 of 2 (other topics)
The Trumpet-Major (other topics)
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Authors mentioned in this topic
Thomas Hardy (other topics)Carl J. Weber (other topics)
Thomas Hardy (other topics)
William Harrison Ainsworth (other topics)
Thomas Hardy (other topics)
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Boldwood (Nigel Terry), Troy (Johnathin Firth), Bathsheba (Paloma Baeza), Gabriel Oak (Nathaniel Parker) 1998 TV/Movie
Installment 7
Chapter 30
Chapter 31
Chapter 32
Chapter 33
Installment 8
Chapter 34
Chapter 35
Chapter 36
Chapter 37
Chapter 38