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I think any serious and honest researcher investigating mind control accounts needs to acknowledge that at least some claims of those saying they are mind control victims are from those who have lost touch with reality or whose memories deceive them. I'm certainly not trying to say that most accounts are false, just simply adding this into the mix of the necessary ingredients required to fully assess the complex issue of mind control in our present society.

The mind is obviously very complex and layered and perhaps some sectors of our society (e.g. those with serious mental illnesses/psychosis) could read about real and proven mind control accounts (such as those programs that have been officially declassified by the CIA) and then in their delusions believe that they have been victims of the same thing. Or else it could be very sane and balanced people who simply have extremely fertile imaginations (and perhaps many young children could fit into this category).

I think False memory syndrome (FMS) may account for some of these claims.

False memory syndrome (FMS) describes a condition in which a person's identity and relationships are affected by memories that are factually incorrect but that they strongly believe.[1] Peter J. Freyd originated the term,[2] which the False Memory Syndrome Foundation (FMSF) subsequently popularized. The term is not recognized as a mental disorder[3] in any of the medical manuals, such as the ICD-10[4] or the DSM-5;[5] however, the principle that memories can be altered by outside influences is overwhelmingly accepted by scientists.[6][7][8][9]

False memories may be the result of recovered memory therapy, a term also defined by the FMSF in the early 1990s,[10] which describes a range of therapy methods that are prone to creating confabulations. Some of the influential figures in the genesis of the theory are forensic psychologist Ralph Underwager, psychologist Elizabeth Loftus and sociologist Richard Ofshe.

i need to update :) interesting stuff

FMS is definitely a real thing. Reading the intro got me thinking about a potential branching of "self-creating" false memories. I know a couple of people who I strongly suspect are pathological liars. One of them, my co-worker, has very impressive stories to tell about her 20-something years she's been alive (enough to fill several lifetimes). The stories have ranged from high-end escort to flying to Italy on a private jet and a boyfriend who single-handedly caused the last economic crisis here in the U.S. It is all quite impressive and entertaining, although at times I wonder if I should feel my intelligence is being insulted. Nontheless, I truly believe that these stories are very real to her and have become a part of her memory.

Lisa wrote: "Nontheless, I truly believe that these stories are very real to her and have become a part of her memory. ..."

Yeah, for people to lie that well they usually have to believe it at a very deep level. I think however some people (successful con-artists, great actors, cult leaders etc) have the ability to double-track in their minds where a part of them is aware they are lying but the other part of their mind is lost in the fantasy world so that when they speak their lies they speak them with conviction.

But getting back to FMS, I think it accounts for some mind control claims but certainly not all and probably only a small percentage...However, I thought it worth mentioning anyway.

I remember several years ago watching a show based on a true story. Some idiot neighbors falsely accused a father of molesting his kids. The kids were inappropriately interrogated and we're promised if they said it happened they could go home...so they did. The father went to prison. i dont remember if the mom was accused as well or what the full stiru was. The sons grew up believing the abuse actually took place. It wasn't until the older son came back from being in the military and was faced with reality of it all that he started remembering a loving father, rather than a molester. ..it took a lot more to help the younger son get rid of this false memory. Heart breaking story, but it isn't surprising that it happens. The neuro pathways are quite complex, but can be "manually" manipulated to create a virtual matrix of memories...at least that is what I think...I think especially those who experience trauma take advantage of this.

sorry about autocorrect. ..try to catch them, but some slip away from me

PatEye wrote: "This issue opens a can of worms. On one level FMS can easily be used by the authorities to debunk any claims made by people who have experienced some of the things discussed on UK. On another level..."

Dead right PatEye.

Hey Pateye, Your take is my take! Mind control seems to me to be an easy thing to implement. I often have warm/heated discussions with my adult children regarding events that happened in their childhood.

Talk about FMS. Their take and my take is often at complete odds and yet we both swear we are correct. Now nobody fed us our recollections but either I am wrong or they are. If all three of my adult kids agreed, then I would have to come to terms with being wroooong as Fonzy would say. However, the discussions I refer to are on an individual basis and it is usually the same child/adult who disagrees with me as to how/what/where something happened. She actually laughs at me -like she takes it for granted her "old" mother remembers wrong.

And my young friend, free speech ain't free any more. Probably never was for that matter.

False memory is an interesting concept. Memory is a complicated powerful thing. I read somewhere that how the mind can block memories and create new ones. I know this one person who had an abusive past and they lived inside their head basically creating alternate timelines as a way to cope. The memory of the bad things isn't blocked in a way but altered so that it became something else entirely... They lied to themselves so often that the lies became truth as a means of survival.
But I can see how some folks say they were controlled and others say they made it up so how can both be right and wrong?

PatEye wrote: "Laureen wrote: "Hey Pateye, Your take is my take! Mind control seems to me to be an easy thing to implement. I often have warm/heated discussions with my adult children regarding events that happ..."

Off topic is fine with me. I often get stray thoughts while discussing one specific topic. They usually aren't exactly "stray" in my mind but connected or I wouldn't have thought to say them - if that makes sense.

Welcome again friend.

K.P. wrote: "False memory is an interesting concept. Memory is a complicated powerful thing. I read somewhere that how the mind can block memories and create new ones. I know this one person who had an abus..."

Yes, this is the quandary Pateye spoke of in in Message 5. Very hard to be certain who is mind controlled and who has an unforced false memory. Those Mind Controllers must have thought they were on a good thing when they figured out how hard it would be to prove either way.

Would you believe, there's actually a False Memory Syndrome Foundation??



Intriguing stuff and some of the Foundation's comments about some innocent people's reputations have been tarnished due to false memory claims regarding abuse cases remind me of the controversies surrounding the "Satanic Panic" cases that mostly in the Bible Belt of the USA in the 80s and 90s. (Not saying I believe all those cases were due to false memories, but it appears there was at least some religious hysteria going on and in the process some innocent people had their names dragged thru the mud...and mud sticks!).


Here's some excerpts from the False Memory Syndrome Foundation homepage:

"Some of our memories are true, some are a mixture of fact and fantasy, and some are false -- whether those memories seem to be continuous or seem to be recalled after a time of being forgotten or not thought about."


Then how can we know if our memories are true?

The professional organizations agree: the only way to distinguish between true and false memories is by external corroboration.

Recovered Memories: Are They Reliable?

What could cause a person to believe sincerely in something that never happened? We have posted on this site both scientific views, derived from suggestibility and influence studies, and insights provided by retractors -- individuals who once accepted as true certain memories that they now believe to have been false.
How to Believe the Unbelievable

Why Believe That for Which There Is No Good Evidence?


Does it matter if someone has a false belief about the past?

Most of the time it doesn't. Sometimes, however, false beliefs cause great harm, not only to the people who hold them, but also to others. This site provides information about how some false beliefs about memory have seriously harmed the believers, their families and other innocent individuals.


What are false memories?

Because of the reconstructive nature of memory, some memories may be distorted through influences such as the incorporation of new information. There are also believed-in imaginings that are not based in historical reality; these have been called false memories, pseudo-memories and memory illusions.They can result from the influence of external factors,such as the opinion of an authority figure or information repeated in the culture. An individual with an internal desire to please, to get better or to conform can easily be affected by such influences.


What is the recovered-memory controversy about?

The information on this site focuses on the current controversy about the accuracy of adult claims of "repressed" memories of childhood sexual abuse that are often made decades after the alleged events, for which there is no external corroboration. The controversy is not about whether children are abused. Child abuse is a serious social problem that requires our attention. Neither is the controversy about whether people may not remember past abuse. There are many reasons why people may not remember something: childhood amnesia, physical trauma, drugs or the natural decay of stored information. The controversy IS about the accuracy of claims of recovered "repressed" memories of abuse. The consequences profoundly affect the law, the way therapy is practiced, families and people's lives.

I believe, and I could be wrong about this, that possibly FMS interrelates with the concept of transference in clinical hypnosis. I seem to recall reading about this somewhere in the back of my mind.

From memory (and I hope this ain't a false memory I'm regurgitating here!) there can be thought transference from the hypnotist to the patient or even vice versa. Maybe sometimes this relates to a hypnotist's expectations...For example, let's say the hypnotist has been given wrong information and was told a patient has been abused...And so the hypnotist's expectations "transfer" into the patient's brain and they start speaking of events that never actually occurred while under hypnosis.

That's my vague recollection of what I once read about transference, but please someone correct me if I'm wrong about this.

And my final thoughts (for now) on FMS is the syndrome is a bitch for actual confirmed victims of mind control and similar crimes as real abusers can potentially use FMS to attempt to discredit real victims. And when there were no witnesses to such crimes, it comes down to one person's word against another's and is therefore often impossible to prove.

But still, the reality of FMS still needs to be acknowledged. Especially as sometimes so called perpetrators are actually the victims as they are innocent and being "named and shamed" online as abusers by conspiracy theorists/extremists (aka "keyboard warriors") who are repeating conspiracy rumors and other unsubstantiated claims they have read elsewhere online and know nothing about the alleged perpetrators.

The Truth About False Memory Syndrome



Child Sexual Abuse and False Memory Syndrome



False Memory Syndrome

Australian Psychological Society : If nothing happened why do I still hurt?