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Without giving away the plot, Lauren, how far does series 1 go? Into WW1?

Gabriele wrote: ""Business mergers". No wonder there was so much adultery among the upper class."

Except, I think it was still generally more accepted and even expected for the husband to have a mistress than for the wife to have a lover.

Of course!

Gundula wrote: "Gabriele wrote: ""Business mergers". No wonder there was so much adultery among the upper class."

Except, I think it was still generally more accepted and even expected for the husband to have a m..."

Agreed, but they did anyway. Just look at Edward VIII when he was Prince of Wales. He really only liked married women and had affairs with many society ladies before latching onto Wallis Simpson.

Esp. if the wife didn't want any more children.

Gabriele wrote: "Gundula wrote: "Gabriele wrote: ""Business mergers". No wonder there was so much adultery among the upper class."

Except, I think it was still generally more accepted and even expected for the hus..."

I wonder why Edward VIII only liked married women. I wonder, did he have any more affairs after he finally married Wallis Simpson. And, you're right, they did anyway, but I think that it was still a bit more "acceptable" for men to have affairs.

Gundula wrote: "I wonder why Edward VIII only liked married women."

Maybe they were safe because they wouldn't expect him to marry them.

Edward and Wallis were well-suited to each other, and I don't think he was ever unfaithful.

OT, here's a video of Edward, who reverted to his real last name David, and except for the blond hair he greatly resembles his brother.



And she was also the alpha wolf of the two. I don't think he would have dared stray.

Gabriele wrote: "Without giving away the plot, Lauren, how far does series 1 go? Into WW1?"

It ends just as the war has been announced :)

Gabriele wrote: "Gundula wrote: "I wonder why Edward VIII only liked married women."

Maybe they were safe because they wouldn't expect him to marry them."

But it was tolerated somewhat among wealthy women if they kept the affairs discreet. They often had affairs to further their husband's career. There's an interesting story about King Edward VII, Queen Victoria's son. His favorite mistress was Mrs. Alice Keppel, but of course Queen Alexandra knew about all his mistresses. Alice used her affairs to move her own husband up the social ladder, the equivalent of a courtesan. It's an outdated word, but it says so much so politely.

Queen Alexandra sent Alice a consoling letter when her husband George was ill. When Edward was dying, wife and mistress attended him together. So civilized!

Here's the punch line: Keppel was the great-grandmother of Camilla Parker-Bowles, mistress of Prince Charles until their marriage.

One last line from the infamous Mrs. Keppel: When she heard in 1936 about Edward VIII renouncing his throne, she remarked that "things were done much better in my day." Meaning, I guess, that Edward could have married someone suitable for a king and kept Wallis on the side.

Rochelle wrote: "One last line from the infamous Mrs. Keppel: When she heard in 1936 about Edward VIII renouncing his throne, she remarked that "things were done much better in my day." Meaning, I guess, that Edwa..."

Indeed!

Rochelle wrote: "Here's the punch line: Keppel was the great-grandmother of Camilla Parker-Bowles, mistress of Prince Charles until their marriage.
"
I do remember that now. Thanks for that, Rochelle.

Lauren wrote: "Gabriele wrote: "Without giving away the plot, Lauren, how far does series 1 go? Into WW1?"

It ends just as the war has been announced :)"

Is the second series already on in Britain?

Gabriele wrote: "Indeed!"

Charles tried marrying properly and having his mistress on the side, but the press was a whole different animal from that of Edward's VII's time. Can't be done any more. :D

We get such a kick watching the British royals across the Pond! There are are no such scandals in the Netherlands because their queen has changed her values with the times.

Jeannette wrote: "It does have a soap opera feel, and some of the stories were resolved too quickly. ..."

I've lost the names of the characters, but one woman apologized to a servant, much to her husband's surprise. She replies, "I always apologize when I've hurt someone."

Jeannette wrote: "It does have a soap opera feel, and some of the stories were resolved too quickly. ..."

Of course it's upper-class soap-opera, just as U,D was. But we're fascinated because "the past is another country. They do things differently there."(L.P.Hartley, The Go-Between)

I missed most of episode I. Cora was the daughter of Isidore Levinson, an American dry goods merchant. Was any point made in Episode I about her being Jewish, as well as (horrors!!) American?

Gabriele wrote: "Lauren wrote: "Gabriele wrote: "Without giving away the plot, Lauren, how far does series 1 go? Into WW1?"

It ends just as the war has been announced :)"

Is the second series already on in Britain?"

No. The first ended around the beginning of November, and knowing British schedules I doubt it'll be back that sort of time this year.

Any news about when you'll get Upstairs Downstairs? I didn't get to see it unfortunately, as the first aired on boxing day and that was our christmas day.

Rochelle wrote: "I missed most of episode I. Cora was the daughter of Isidore Levinson, an American dry goods merchant. Was any point made in Episode I about her being Jewish, as well as (horrors!!) American?"

I don't recall anything about that. Is the actress Jewish?

Lauren wrote: "Rochelle wrote: "I missed most of episode I. Cora was the daughter of Isidore Levinson, an American dry goods merchant. Was any point made in Episode I about her being Jewish, as well as (horrors!..."

No, she isn't, but they gave her father a definitely Jewish name.

I know they mentioned she is an American heiress, but I don't remember any mention of her family name, or that she was Jewish. But, it's easy to miss details like this in the opening episode. Do you remember the scene it was mentioned in?

I missed most of the first episode, and read a summary online.

I looked on pbs.org, but didn't see anything about her being Jewish in their rather brief character synopsis. Which site were you on? Just curious.

Jeannette, I'm on 20 or 30 sites a night. If I find it again, I'll let you know. Meawhile try Googling "Dopwnton Abbey episode summary."

I went exploring and found an interview that says Elizabeth McGovern, the American actress who plays Cora, is married to the British director Simon Curtis (Cranford), who she describes in the interview as Jewish.

Which is not relevant to the character Cora. You'll just have to take my word that I saw the other item. It would be an additional reason why Violet resents her.

I searched my history and here it is. You can also get it by Googling "Downton Abbey Cora Levinson."

That's interesting that Violet would have let her son marry a Jew. Having to marry an American would be "demeaning" enough, but I wonder what society would have made of his wife being Jewish? I would think it would damage the family socially, no matter how much fortune she brought to the marriage.

Now we're on the same track. I didn't see the whole first episode, but if Cora had converted it would have been acceptable, or if the Grantham family were Jewish. Unless their religion is demonstrated, you can't presume they're not. My research shows that in the late 19th century, there was a mass Jewish immigration to England and America from Russia due to Russian domestic policy. There were almost half a million Jews in Great Britain by the 1930's.

Anyway, it's not worth too much more of our time. Violet and Cora are about to conspire together regarding the Turk's death in a most amusing episode.

Here's a history of the branch of the Rothschilds in England, dating back to to 1798. Old-money Jews were nothing to sneeze at, although Cora was not of banking family.

I'm looking forward to watching the new Upstairs Downstairs on PBS tonight! UK friends, are there more than 3 episodes?

Gabriele wrote: "I'm looking forward to watching the new Upstairs Downstairs on PBS tonight! UK friends, are there more than 3 episodes?"

I wouldn't know as I didn't watch it. Poor reviews put me off and it aired far too close to Downton Abbey.
Hope you enjoy it anyway :)

BBC4 aired an adaptation of The Rainbow and Women in Love rolled into one recently. It's between the wars so I thought it might be of interest. Stars Rosamund Pike and Rachael Stirling.

Lauren wrote: "BBC4 aired an adaptation of The Rainbow and Women in Love rolled into one recently. It's between the wars so I thought it might be of interest. Stars Rosamund Pike and ..."

Wonderful! Hope it comes our way soon.

So, how was the new Upstairs, Downstairs? I didn't catch it last night, but it should be online all week.

Opulent, but a bit disappointing. It has a lot to live up to. Perhaps it gets better. Let me know what you think, Jeannette.

These days the BBC seems to create dramas that look great but don't have much going on beneath the surface.

You preferred Downton then?

I'll report back later.

Lauren wrote: "These days the BBC seems to create dramas that look great but don't have much going on beneath the surface.

You preferred Downton then?"

At this point. As I say, I was expecting a great deal from U/D.

I think they were trying very hard, because they knew what they had to live up to. It was not bad; I enjoyed the hour. We'll see if the next episode is more itself and not such a set-up episode.

Come on everyone. We need to enjoy Upstairs Downstairs for what it is. Try less comparison. I loved it myself but it doesn't compare to Downton Abbey which is set mostly in Rural England. They are both very good but have faults, too. The thing that I like is that Upstairs Downstairs is new and diverting.

Don't get me wrong - I still enjoyed it. Since I watch very little TV except this sort of thing, it makes me happy to have it available.

I watched it and enjoyed it. I do agree that it is tough that these 2 "high profile" period shows were released so close together, making it too easy to compare them. It seems U,D will have a smaller cast, which might make it more preferable to the larger scale DA in many ways.

I am at a disadvantage at not having seen the original U,D series, so I won't understand any connections that take place. I am certainly willing to watch episode 2 next week though. Jean Marsh is lovely to watch and I always like Keely Hawes. Where am I remembering the actor who plays Hallam from?

I think my problem is that I saw the original 60+ ( ?) episodes of UD several times, and now own the DVD series. But I am excited with the potential for the new series, since there is such rich social history to be explored.

Gabriele wrote: "I think my problem is that I saw the original 60+ ( ?) episodes of UD several times, and now own the DVD series. But I am excited with the potential for the new series, since there is such rich soc..."

Hey, I watched U,D during its initial run in the US on Masterpiece Theater. I was in high school. I really wanted to have an aunt like Mrs. Bridges...