Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ

Hi, folks,

Welcome to the discussion of my first book, Doc Wilde and The Frogs of Doom, which is the Pulp Magazine Authors and Literature Fans group common read for November.

I'm deeply into writing the second book in the series, Doc Wilde and The Mad Skull, but as much as I can I'll be here for the discussion. I'm truly interested in any and all feedback; you folks are a key part of my audience, and your response could be helpful in writing the future books in the series.

I had offered a while back to send twenty people free PDF copies to read, so they could join the discussion. I know reading a book onscreen can be a pain, but my book isn't long (186 pages) and is a very brisk read with short chapters, so it's easy to read in multiple sittings.

I'm in the process of sending the requested files, and if you had mailed me for one and haven't heard from me yet, please send another message.

I only got a few requests, so the field is still open. If you'd like one, send me a private message through Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ with an email address I can send the file to.

The offer ends November 30, 2009.

Here are the terms of this offer:

If you don't care to go along with them, or don't think you'll be able to due to time or other issues, please don't request a copy.

If you get a copy:

1. You commit to participating in the group discussion of the book. There're no set rules on participation, I only ask that you actively consider the work and comment on what you like or don't like about it. I'm very interested in what people have to say. Naturally the discussion is open to all, not just those who receive the PDF file.

2. Within a month after reading the book, you commit to writing a review of it to be posted on Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ, and if possible, Amazon/Borders/Barnes & Noble if you have an account with one or more of them and are able to review there. The only standard for this review is it should say something about the book, if only a paragraph's worth of impression, not just be a star rating.

3. If you like the book, you consider buying a copy, either for yourself, as a gift for someone else (for a kid, particularly, to keep the pulp tradition alive, but for an older adventure fan is fine too), or even as a donation to your local library or school library. The more books that sell, naturally, the better the chances that the series will continue to grow. And we are close to the Christmas shopping season. ;)

If you buy a copy directly from me, I'll inscribe it for you or whoever it's meant for. If you buy from another source, let me know and I can send you an inscribed bookplate to stick in the book. And the bookplates came out very nicely.

For more info about the book, visit the website listed in my signature. Among other info, you can find an excerpt, some cool art in the gallery, and a page summing up the critical response so far. I also invite you to sign up for the upcoming newsletter, which will not only include up-dates on Doc Wilde news, but a regular "Doc Wilde's Cliffhanger Survival Tips" feature.

I really look forward to seeing what you have to say. Thanks for joining the adventure!

Best,

Tim Byrd

Home of the Frogs of Doom!

I much enjoyed the novel and as a fan of the old pulps, I think I caught most of the connections. Grandpa, in my mind, is Doc Savage. It seemed obvious.

You mentioned Dent and Lovecraft as influences. I've not read a lot of Lovecraft(I find him too plodding for my tastes).

I'm also looking forward to the next book in the series.

After twelve other libraries wouldn't (or couldn't) loan it, I finally got my hands on an ILL copy of Tim's book, which arrived yesterday. Hooray! I'll start reading it today (I'm champing at the bit!), so hopefully should be able to join in the discussion before long.

Well, I've read (and liked!) the book, and reviewed it here on Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ. There are a LOT of good features here that I appreciate, starting with the fact that Tim doesn't succumb to the temptation that so many modern authors do, even in kid's books, to force in profanity and sexual content because they think it "sells." (But if I get started listing good features, this will be a loooong comment!)

To throw out a thought that's more calculated to start discussion: this particular book is as much a homage to H. P. Lovecraft as to Lester Dent; the Lovecraftian elements of the premise and plot are palpable to anyone familiar with the Cthulhu Mythos. (I loved the verbal allusions at the opening of Chapt. 44; kudos, Tim!) But though it's faithful to Lovecraft's basic conceptual framework, the book has what I would describe as a much more optimistic feel and tone compared to much of his own work, and that of many of his imitators; and it doesn't convey a message of existential despair and hopelessness. I saw that as a positive difference. Does anybody agree? Or are there any Lovecraft purists who felt offended and betrayed by it? :-)

Werner... I'll let you know, I'm a huge HPL fan and my copy of Wilde shipped yesterday. I'm really looking forward to reading this. BTW, if anyone is an HPL fan, I really recommend getting H.P.Lovecraft: The Fiction, complete and unabridged. It's one of those B&N 'exclusives', but well worth it to stop getting allot of minor collections to complete the whole.

Ironically I came back on Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ (after joining then not doing much) with the intention of getting more active, and the first group I join is reading the book I was kicking myself for having not gotten around to reviewing yet.

Oh, and hi. My name is John. I'm a pulpaholic.

I really do need to write my review, as I loved this book, and all too often my reviews are sort of harsh. Maybe I'm mostly motivated to write by books that really annoy me. I'm trying to be better about that, and try to publicly support good books more than I publicly tear down bad ones.

I thought Tim Byrd's "Doc Wilde" book was a great pastiche that outgrew pastiche. In ways it outgrew the material that inspired it. I love all the old Doc Savage stories with all my heart and soul, but Byrd captures all the things that make those stories awesome but adds in characters that seem more realistic (or at least more human), and he writes better than Lester Dent ever did. That might not be fair though since Byrd no doubt benefits from a much longer writing/editing cycle than dent, who had to write one of these a month.

Werner's right about the Lovecraft elements in the book. The villains are clever sendups of the creatures in Lovecraft's "The Shadow Over Innsmouth." I enjoy Lovecraft, but I'm far from a purist and no scholar of his work. But I enjoyed Byrd's playful reworking of Lovecraft's tropes. Oddly, in spite of the lack of nihilism and the overall quite optimistic feel of the story, the creatures in Doc Wilde and The Frogs of Doom still manage to be surprisingly scary.

In fact at one moment that springs to mind, Doc Wilde is so overwhelmed by the enormity of his enemies and the odds against him that he is momentarily frozen, at a loss for what to do. Then he chooses bold action, as is his style, and breaks the freeze. I liked that. It deepened both the suspense of the moment and Doc's character, in a quick little flourish.

The book is full of pulp allusions that any pulp fan will enjoy. I really liked how Byrd took tropes not only from Doc Savage stories but all sorts of other tales and seamlessly wove them into a story that zips along at lightning speed. He also took tropes and made them his own. For instance, in the old Doc Savage stories, Doc had a weird tic in which he made a strange "trilling" sound when he was excited. It's an odd and, I've always thought, stupid feature of the stories that I always thought shouldn't have been there. There's a scene in Byrd's book, however, that uses that "trilling" in a way that makes complete sense in the world of Doc Wilde, and offers a reasonable explanation for what that trilling sound actually is. It's very cool.

I'll post more thoughts if I have any. I hope to see more discussion than there has been so far because Byrd's book definitely needs to be read by anyone who loves pulp adventures. It's sold as a kids' book but I enjoyed it as much as any "grown up" pulp adventure I've read in years, and a good deal more than most. It's smart and witty and fun. I'm looking forward to the next one.

Jerrod wrote: "BTW, if anyone is an HPL fan, I really recommend getting H.P.Lovecraft: The Fiction, complete and unabridged. It's one of those B&N 'exclusives',..."

Yes, it is a very nice hardcover, no doubt about it. Unfortunately it is ridden with spelling errors. But most of them only puritists will complain about, really;-)

I will purchase your book sometime, Mr. Wilde--it sure sounds interesting--but I have forced myself to refrain from buying more books for a while... Ugh...

Jerrod, thanks for the news about a comprehensive collection of Lovecraft's fiction. Finally! Hooray! It's about time that some publisher did that.

I heartily agree with John's assessment --except that I can't directly compare Tim's writing with Lester Dent's, not having read any of the latter. But this book has inspired me to plan on remedying that!

Randy wrote: "I much enjoyed the novel and as a fan of the old pulps, I think I caught most of the connections. Grandpa, in my mind, is Doc Savage. It seemed obvious.

You mentioned Dent and Lovecraft as influences. I've not read a lot of Lovecraft(I find him too plodding for my tastes)."

I'm glad you enjoyed it.

Regarding Grandpa, I recently wrote this on my blog at

"Grandpa Wilde (Spartacus’s father), the original Doc Wilde who was famous in the thirties and forties, is my intertextual acknowledgment that the original hero is parent to the current hero, but also speaks to the fact that the younger Wilde is his own man. As similar as he is to Savage, he is also very different in ways, not least of which is that he is a warm, emotionally accessible family man, unlike the stern and remote man of bronze."

Regarding Lovecraft, he is often best in small doses. I highly reecommend the short stories "Dagon" and "The Shadow Over Innsmouth" for anyone interested in the literary roots of Doc Wilde and The Frogs of Doom. The former is also quite short, though the latter is the superior tale (and has a truly haunting final paragraph).

Werner wrote: "Well, I've read (and liked!) the book, and reviewed it here on Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ.

And thank you very much for that review. I loved it not just because it was positive, but because it was one of the most thoughtful and complete reviews the book has had.

I'm going to post later with any comments I can come up with to dialogue with the review. ;)

To throw out a thought that's more calculated to start discussion: this particular book is as much a homage to H. P. Lovecraft as to Lester Dent; the Lovecraftian elements of the premise and plot are palpable to anyone familiar with the Cthulhu Mythos. (I loved the verbal allusions at the opening of Chapt. 44; kudos, Tim!) But though it's faithful to Lovecraft's basic conceptual framework, the book has what I would describe as a much more optimistic feel and tone compared to much of his own work, and that of many of his imitators; and it doesn't convey a message of existential despair and hopelessness."

I've been giving a lot of thought to optimism and adventure fiction the past couple of years, and have blogged on it and talked about it in some interviews. Here's a bit from the interview Enchanting YA did with me (

Why action/adventure?

I love adventure stories. Always have.

I was recently thinking about this very question, about why this is the sort of thing that my mind comes up with (as opposed to, say, suburban divorce stories), and it occurred to me that most adventure tales are tales of optimism. The heroes face difficulties, and almost always manage to overcome them. Adventure stories are usually considered escapism, a retreat from our daily reality, but I think instead they actually motivate us subconsciously to engage reality. They give us models of perseverance and hope.

I finished this yesterday, and I published my review on GR. I'll repost it here to join in with the discussion:

------------------------------------------------------

I was impressed with the story of Doc Wilde and his kids. Tim Byrd has an author's voice for high adventure, that's for sure. It felt like a book for pre-teens, but I think that adventure fans of all ages should enjoy it.

Pulp adventure with a Lovecraftian menace as the main antagonist. Brian and Wren are delightful as adventurers-in-training, and are full of educational sidebits. I found the literary quotes and the brief lessons in geography, language, history, and science to be very enlightening. A kid should enjoy those parts without even realizing that they are learning something.

The only negative I would attach to the book is that I felt it ended rather abruptly. It built to a climax rather nicely, and the resolution of the main plot was just fine, but it seemed that it wrapped up in a hurried manner. Perhaps this is a pulp adventure trait; I've not read much in the genre. It did answer questions I had, it just seemed to brush over them rather quickly. It's not really a complaint, since it did work, but I did feel like I was slamming on brakes there at the end. Maybe that was by design, so I won't be too critical of that.

Very nice work, Mr. Byrd. I would be interested in seeing more adventures of Brian, Wren, and Doc. And I had to say that I very much enjoyed the banter/rivalry between Declan and Bartlett, Doc Wilde's hired help.

John wrote: "Oh, and hi. My name is John. I'm a pulpaholic."

Hiiii, Joooohn.

"I thought Tim Byrd's "Doc Wilde" book was a great pastiche that outgrew pastiche. In ways it outgrew the material that inspired it. I love all the old Doc Savage stories with all my heart and soul, but Byrd captures all the things that make those stories awesome but adds in characters that seem more realistic (or at least more human), and he writes better than Lester Dent ever did. That might not be fair though since Byrd no doubt benefits from a much longer writing/editing cycle than dent, who had to write one of these a month."

I appreciate the compliment. I will say this: if I had to write a book a month, it would kill me. So the overall high quality Lester Dent managed while doing so is an Olympian feat in my eyes.

"Werner's right about the Lovecraft elements in the book. The villains are clever sendups of the creatures in Lovecraft's 'The Shadow Over Innsmouth'."

Bingo. ;)

"I enjoy Lovecraft, but I'm far from a purist and no scholar of his work. But I enjoyed Byrd's playful reworking of Lovecraft's tropes. Oddly, in spite of the lack of nihilism and the overall quite optimistic feel of the story, the creatures in Doc Wilde and The Frogs of Doom still manage to be surprisingly scary."

That's gratifying to hear. Most things I write tend to have some horror creep in, and while I wasn't trying to make this actually scary, I've had others say that and I'm pleased if it's so.

"The book is full of pulp allusions that any pulp fan will enjoy. I really liked how Byrd took tropes not only from Doc Savage stories but all sorts of other tales and seamlessly wove them into a story that zips along at lightning speed."

My good friend Ed Hall, who was the first person to read the book outside the family, commented "You wear your angels on your sleeve."

"He also took tropes and made them his own. For instance, in the old Doc Savage stories, Doc had a weird tic in which he made a strange "trilling" sound when he was excited. It's an odd and, I've always thought, stupid feature of the stories that I always thought shouldn't have been there. There's a scene in Byrd's book, however, that uses that "trilling" in a way that makes complete sense in the world of Doc Wilde, and offers a reasonable explanation for what that trilling sound actually is. It's very cool."

Glad you got a kick out of that. I always hated the trilling too. It, and Monk and Ham's pets, are the only regular elements of the Doc Savage tales I could really do without. My version of the trilling, though, I think works. ;)

"I hope to see more discussion than there has been so far because Byrd's book definitely needs to be read by anyone who loves pulp adventures. It's sold as a kids' book but I enjoyed it as much as any "grown up" pulp adventure I've read in years, and a good deal more than most. It's smart and witty and fun. I'm looking forward to the next one. "

The next one is in the works. And however they're sold, I do write the books with both kid and adult readers very much in mind. If Pixar can do that sort of thing in film, no reason we can't do it in books.

Werner wrote: "I can't directly compare Tim's writing with Lester Dent's, not having read any of the latter. But this book has inspired me to plan on remedying that!"

If you can get your hands on the first book, "The Man of Bronze", you may pick up on a few allusions I specifically worked into my book.

And if you want one of the absolute best in the series, try The Thousand-Headed Man or Fear Cay.

There's actually a great radio adaptation NPR did of the latter in 1985, and I have links in an entry on my blog () pointing where you can listen. Fun stuff.

Chris wrote: "I was impressed with the story of Doc Wilde and his kids. Tim Byrd has an author's voice for high adventure, that's for sure. It felt like a book for pre-teens, but I think that adventure fans of all ages should enjoy it."

That's the very idea.

The only negative I would attach to the book is that I felt it ended rather abruptly. It built to a climax rather nicely, and the resolution of the main plot was just fine, but it seemed that it wrapped up in a hurried manner. Perhaps this is a pulp adventure trait; I've not read much in the genre. It did answer questions I had, it just seemed to brush over them rather quickly. It's not really a complaint, since it did work, but I did feel like I was slamming on brakes there at the end. Maybe that was by design, so I won't be too critical of that.

It was author failure, honestly. I went well past deadline on the final draft simply because I was trying to write a final chapter I was satisfied with. There's a pretty extensive attempt on my hard drive somewhere I might one day post as a "deleted scene" to the Doc Wilde site.

Problem was, I thought the final scene, and the existing final line, were the true and proper emotional ending of the story. I really liked having it end on that note...but it did leave a few loose ends.

Ultimately, because I was out of time, and couldn't come up with anything that wasn't too epilogue-ey, I added the brisk summary of what was going to happen after that final scene, which allowed me to end on that moment of shared joy. I think it works, but it is sort of abrupt.

Very nice work, Mr. Byrd. I would be interested in seeing more adventures of Brian, Wren, and Doc. And I had to say that I very much enjoyed the banter/rivalry between Declan and Bartlett, Doc Wilde's hired help."

Thank you, sir. they're enjoyable company, though they can be a bit much at times. ;)

Okay, I'm going back through Werner's awesome review and will annotate a bit in response...

Lester Dent meets H. P. Lovecraft in this adventure yarn, with a sizable dollop of Eoin Colfer thrown in: in tone, style and reading level --and to a degree in essential conception, although the Wildes, unlike the Fowls, are resolutely law-abiding and ethical-- this book reminded me of Artemis Fowl. Like the latter, it's aimed primarily at pre-teen readers, and should prove equally popular with them. Indeed, my rating above is based on the author's skillful appeal to this audience; while I did like it (and better than Colfer's series-opener!), my rating based strictly on my own reaction would have been three stars --it lacked the amount of texture and character development that it usually takes to earn four stars from me. That wouldn't be a problem for most kids, though.

I tried for narrative velocity in Frogs of Doom, knowing I was writing for the long haul and intending to let the characters develop more over time. The approach worked, at least insofar as it appealed to Putnam enough to buy it, and to the audience enough to sell enough copies to convince Putnam to make it a series. (Of course, this makes it sound like I purposefully decided this stuff, while the reality was I just opened my brain and let the book fall out).

As I'm working on the second book, Doc Wilde and The Mad Skull, it's just naturally developing its own feel, and part of that is a deepening of character. You'll be learning more about the space left in the family by the death of the kids' mom, and the effects her death has on their lives now. I'm getting to know the Wildes better, and I'm liking doing so.

Doc Wilde, adventurer and scientific polymath, is based on Lester Dent's Doc Savage character from the early modern adventure pulps (I haven't read any of L. Dent's work myself --though this book whetted my interest in doing so). Here, the challenge he must confront is posed by an extraterrestrial, amphibious Elder God from beyond our universe, itching to break into our universe and wreak havoc, and invested with all of the Lovecraftian trappings that Cthulhu Mythos fans (like me!) will readily recognize and eat up with a spoon. :-)

Lovecraft fans who've commented on the book do seem to get a kick out of what I've done with old H.P.'s eldritch and indescribeable notions.

But Doc is accompanied in his adventures by his 12 and 10 year-old kids Brian and Wren, an element missing in Byrd's pulp fiction models, but calculated to appeal to an audience of their peers. Now, even though these kids are mentally and physically trained better than most adults, they're still kids; some readers will find it unrealistic that a parent would expose them to that degree of danger, even granting that he's a male parent (Mrs. Wilde is dead years ago --if she were alive, I suspect she'd have enthusiastic objections!), and will feel that if he did, he should be prosecuted by social services for reckless endangerment. :-) Those readers have a case, but it misses the point: this is essentially a child's fantasy, a literary daydream of what they could do with that kind of training and a parent willing to let them use it. And their identification with heroic kids who make a difference in the outcome of the situation --as Brian and Wren do here-- isn't a bad thing.

Thank you. In writing this, the parenting issue was of course very much in my mind, and ultimately I decided not to worry about it. Hero stories are, in essence, wish fulfilment after all, and not bound by our mundane concerns.

Also, thanks to their upbringing, Brian and Wren are actually far more capable in hazardous situations than most adults, and are genuinely helpful when the chips are down.

The short chapters that one reviewer complained of don't actually make for a choppy narrative, because the story flows in a quick-moving current; the chapter divisions just correspond to what in some works would be a skipped line to indicate a scene change, and often emphasize an ominous or cliffhanger moment. (I wasn't bothered, either, by the occasional use of unconventional typescript for emphasis --it wasn't overused, and for me didn't interfere with readability.)

The short chapters, of course, were a decision out of that "narrative velocity" approach I mentioned above.

The font-play, to be honest, I wasn't at all taken with when I first saw it, but I have had more positive comments about it than negative. But, depending on your viewpoint, whatever credit or blame is to be granted for it, it was all Putnam's, not mine.

Obviously, the one-sentence claim of a role for the book's Elder God figure in the supposed evolution of earthly life clashes with a creationist view, as does Lovecraft's own passing mention, in At the Mountains of Madness, of the supposed role of his aliens in the origin of mankind; but in both places, this isn't a major thrust of the story as a whole nor essential to the plot, and so can simply be passed over. (After all, if you can accept the idea that a child could be trained to "see" in the dark by echolocation --though not as well as a bat can-- temporary suspension of disbelief for anything won't be a big problem!)

Actually, that's completely based in reality. Check out the Wikipedia entries for James Holman () and human echolocation (). Utterly amazing.

All of the members of the Wilde family are larger-than-life characters, as tends to be the case in adventure fiction, and they're delineated mostly in terms of what they can do, without much attention to their interior life; but again, that's a characteristic of the genre. Byrd writes well, giving you enough detail to bring the characters and scenes to life but not to interfere with a quick narrative pace; he keeps action scenes and physical jeopardies frequent, so there's never a dull moment, and the situations are genuinely demanding for the characters (Wren's long crawl through a narrow subterranean tunnel in pitch darkness, for instance, isn't for the claustrophobic). Despite the Lovecraftian theme, he wisely eschews preaching cosmic despair -- confronted by a universe-threatening ancient evil of great power and malevolence, the Wildes don't sink into suicidal existential angst; they just set their jaws and kick some amphibian butt. :-) There are a number of other good touches here: I liked the strong family bond among the Wildes, their ecological concern, their preference for not killing if they can avoid it, and the positive portrayal of homeschooling; and I also appreciated the fact that Wren was an equal member of the team, not excluded from adventuring because of her gender, as was often the fate of females in the adventure fiction of the 19th and early 20th centuries. (Grandma's no slouch at akido, either. :-))

Grandma Pat has a lot going on, as we'll see in the next few books. She's just as formidable as the rest of the clan.

Byrd has just the right note of deadpan humor; and like Edgar Rice Burroughs, he's adept at switching focus between separated characters to create cliff- hanger situations. The climax and denouement are well-done. But where the Wildes really won my heart was when I read, "Like Doc and the kids, the grandparents Wilde liked only one thing more than adventuring: reading." As a librarian (and fellow reader), I LIKE this family! :-)

I'm glad you do. Hopefully I'll be able to keep telling their stories for a long time.

Thank you again for the thoughtful review.

Tim, glad you liked the review! I hope you noticed that I later added a comment to say that honestly, on reflection, I'd give it four stars based on my own enjoyment of it, not just that of a hypothetical younger reader. (Sometimes it gets tiring to always have to wear the mantle of a sober academic critic. :-)) And I want you to know that once Doc Wilde and the Mad Skull is published, it's definitely going on my to-read shelf!