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Q&A with Josh Lanyon discussion

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ARCHIVE BOM Discussions > March Read 2011: Finding Zach

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message 51: by Merith (new)

Merith | 361 comments I went into this story with great reluctance. Its summary did not appeal to me and the first few chapters worried me in what I would find - something distasteful, over sensationalized, focusing on the wrong things. Finding Zach was none of these things.

The more I read, the more I became interested in Zach's recovery rather than the romance and the interrupted potential relationship the boys could have/would have had, if Zach hadn't been taken. The author excelled in showing up a plausible recovery of a highly traumatized victim. By the end, we know that Zach isn't fully recovered, that he never will be back to where he was before, but he had the skills now to cope and the love of family and David to assuage him.

The one thing I did note about Zach is, he might be 21/22 in age, but he was still 15 (or so) in his thoughts and actions where his parents and David were concerned. Deliberate or not, the author did a good job in showing that there was no true growth for Zach while being held.

Zach and David's relationship was interesting to watch evolve. At times I was thinking they were moving too fast for the trauma Zach had gone through; Zach seemed to open up almost instantly once he and David had their confrontation. I can concede that Zach had probably spent a LOT of time thinking about David and his initial reaction to David. Knowing that Zach had lived with these horrid nightmares for years, and was still in their clutches, unable to differentiate between them and reality, I could believe it.

All in all, I'm glad I read the story, stretched my reader boundaries in this case.


message 52: by Josh (new)

Josh (joshlanyon) | 23698 comments Mod
Lora wrote: "I loved Finding Zach.
Aside from my rather vocal complaints about Kleenex usage, I found it to be a story about finding hope and overcoming the horrors of the past to become happy in the now.

..."


That's not a lame start, that's a great start. I think that's absolutely what the writer intended, and so for me that makes it at least a partial success in storytelling.


message 53: by Josh (last edited Mar 26, 2011 09:39AM) (new)

Josh (joshlanyon) | 23698 comments Mod
Emanuela ~Zstyx~ wrote: "Zach and David's relationship was a bit annoying sometimes. Too much thinking?

Definitely. This was one of the great weaknesses for me. The repetition and the endless thinky/talky stuff.

Which -- with the exception of those vividly real panic attacks -- felt pretty artificial to me.

But I'll get into that later.

They misread each other a lot of time, they are so aware of the other that they end up double-guessing themselves constantly. It's like their fears of losing each other paralyzes them, making them always go around in circles.

Which actually could have worked if a more subtle hand had been there to guide an inexperienced author -- that was my main feeling reading. This was an ambitious effort but the author was clearly inexperienced and the editor seemed to be asleep at the wheel.

This is a complex, complicated story and it needed careful pacing and a tight, tight rein. I didn't feel that was there.

That said, I seem to look at everything these days from a technical standpoint, so I think sometimes the emotional power of stories is almost lost on me because I'm so focused on the best way to tell the tale versus what the tale is.

Zach is not able to express his fears clearly and David treats him like a fragile being. Throughout the whole book they are both doing something wrong, reaching the worst conclusion with the best intentions. It was very interesting that the person who really brought them together, that made them open their eyes and be "real" was the apparently bad guy in the book.

Which to me seemed heavy-handed -- overkill. But I truly felt, because of pacing issues, that the whole thing went on for far too long.

Although I give kudos for such an ambitious effort.


message 54: by Josh (new)

Josh (joshlanyon) | 23698 comments Mod
Some general notes from the first couple of chapters -- I made these as I read:

"Captain John Rogers" seems to set the tone and it bugged me in that we didn't know what type of unit, etc. Marines or mercenaries? Who knows. No description of scene or setting -- just a lot of floating dialog that didn't sound particularly real to me. No idea of what anyone looks like or where they are or the situation.

This is the kind of description that's basically inventory-taking without really describing anything. It's the first real effort at setting and it's pretty generic.


"They waited until the teams had secured the building, and
then went in. It was a simple two-room structure. The main
room where they stood was an office; through the open door
to the other room, Rogers could see a neatly made bed and
another door already standing open from the other team's
entrance a few moments before. The office contained a desk,
a laptop computer, file cabinets, a a chair, and a wire dog
crate—the big kind, made for large dogs like the Rottweilers
and Dobermans Pritzger had mentioned."

If we already had an idea as to what kind of camp we're in -- the jungle, the desert, the tropics, the arctic...it would be fine. As it is, it's flat.

Touching scene when Richard learns his son is still alive -- this part the author is on surer ground.

I can't say that I bought the whole dog thing -- he wasn't raised in the camp, after all and he still remembers his past life clearly -- psychologically that felt unlikely. He can distance himself enough to refer to the dog collar as a dog collar, not MY collar, so...no. It's thinky and contrived -- over complicated. Zach's inner thoughts don't match his supposedly scarred and crippled psyche. One minute he's thinking "what are parents?" and the next he's referring to his psychiatrist as his "shrink" and reflecting that his shrink is also apparently a medical doctor. He can make a word play on "Dick and Jane." Anyway, the gaps in his supposed knowledge are illogical. They don't line up. His inner commentary is essentially worldly and cynical yet he supposedly can't articulate anything more than barks and whines and whimpers.


message 55: by Josh (new)

Josh (joshlanyon) | 23698 comments Mod
The more I read, the more I became interested in Zach's recovery rather than the romance and the interrupted potential relationship the boys could have/would have had, if Zach hadn't been taken. The author excelled in showing up a plausible recovery of a highly traumatized victim. By the end, we know that Zach isn't fully recovered, that he never will be back to where he was before, but he had the skills now to cope and the love of family and David to assuage him.

I give full credit to the author for not trying to show some magical healing -- not that the power of love isn't...pretty damn powerful (since humans do go crazy and die without it) but that kind of damage takes serious time to heal.


message 56: by Josh (new)

Josh (joshlanyon) | 23698 comments Mod
All in all, I'm glad I read the story, stretched my reader boundaries in this case.

Yes. I think there was considerable unease that this was going to be a painful or graphically unpleasant book, but I didn't find it so at all.

I think the author's focus was on showing healing and recovery, and I think she achieved that. I think it's a story of the triumph of the human spirit and the power of love, without trying to candcoat everything.


message 57: by Josh (new)

Josh (joshlanyon) | 23698 comments Mod
So those who loved the story and were moved by it, what is it that you loved? What were the most moving parts?


message 58: by Calathea (last edited Mar 26, 2011 09:55AM) (new)

Calathea | 6034 comments I actually didn’t like „Finding Zach� that much. Maybe I missed the point completely or it’s just not my thing.
I bought the book and started to read it over a week later. And by this time I already had forgotten what the blurb said. So when I started into the first chapter I was positively surprised by the action and started to guess who Zach would end up with. I liked both Captain John Rogers and Lieutenant Pritzker. I thought they would be important characters and was kind of sad to loose them so fast.
Then the part of Zach’s first person narration started. It was very intense. First the change from third person to first was a little irritating for me but I thought if the novel kept the intensity it was going to be good. But then there was this huge leap forward to the next chapter two years later. And it’s (unfortunately) back to third person.
I liked the whole part until Zach and David come together quite well. There was a conflict and they had a lot to work through. It might have been a little rushed but it was okay. But after that the story lost me along the way and I had to make a longer break because I lost the motivation to read further.
Emanuela already wrote that she found their relationship to be somewhat annoying because of the endless misunderstandings. It’s the same with me. The first two or three times were okay to get the point across. After that they should have learned a bit about each other to not fall in this particular trap again and again.
Then there was this business with this journalist. It could have been the reason for a major conflict between Zach and David. And I waited for Zach to find out that David knew about Brian being a journalist. And then� nothing happened. That was kind of disappointing.
I would have thought it better to stay in Zach’s POV over the whole story to get better access to his thoughts and emotions because they were the reason for his sometimes strange behaviour.
After all it was good enough to read through to the end.
I’m still left with the question why David loved Zach so much.


message 59: by Susan (new)

Susan | 807 comments I originally read this story last September and then reread it when it was chosen as the March selection. I had first purchased it because the synopsis indicated a level of suffering that I am a sucker for. But I admit when I began the book I was worried it was a little too much even for me. Fortunately once Zach was home, I was back in my comfort zone.

I felt Zach's relationship with David was shown as a realistic work in progress, and I was pleased to see Zach was not shown continuing to frequent the bars after he and David reconnected. But I do agree with the comment above that the 2 of them were constantly misreading each other. That could have been toned down some.

Overall I think the author showed a well thought out progression of Zach's physical and emotional healing. I enjoyed reading the book both times, and will likely read it again.


message 60: by Josh (last edited Mar 26, 2011 10:59AM) (new)

Josh (joshlanyon) | 23698 comments Mod
So among the things I really liked...one of my favorite dynamics is the whole old lovers getting back together again, so that really worked for me.

Also rescue stories and hurt/comfort tend to be things I enjoy, so I understand why I purchased it in the first place.

As I'm thinking over this one, I suddenly recalled a story I read years ago -- it was a Prowler title I think. Anyway, not exactly the same dynamic, but close in some respects. It's the story of two young Englishmen after one of them is taken hostage in the Middle East. It's the most painful, wrenching story about what each lover goes through, and it's meticulously researched. Ultimately the captured man is executed, so I don't recommend it, however. A very powerful, sorrowful book.


message 61: by Josh (new)

Josh (joshlanyon) | 23698 comments Mod
Then the part of Zach’s first person narration started. It was very intense. First the change from third person to first was a little irritating for me but I thought if the novel kept the intensity it was going to be good. But then there was this huge leap forward to the next chapter two years later. And it’s (unfortunately) back to third person.

The changing POV messed with the pacing, but I understand why the author made the choice to try and show Zach and his progress from so many viewpoints.


message 62: by Josh (new)

Josh (joshlanyon) | 23698 comments Mod
I had first purchased it because the synopsis indicated a level of suffering that I am a sucker for.

I love the honesty of this.

It's risky doing a story like this because so many readers are potentially scared off by the notion of extreme suffering. Then again, some readers actually enjoy it -- provided (big provision) there's a nice emotional payoff at the end.

Those of you who dread angst -- did you feel like you got the payoff that made the pain worth it?


message 63: by Audra Rickman (new)

Audra Rickman | 23 comments This was the second time I had read "Finding Zack" and I find it a "middle of the road" book. Not excellent, not crap. The concept of the story didn't distress me and while I agree his inner thoughts were disjointed, ie "what are parents?" then making "Dick and Jane" jokes, I liked the idea of Zack not knowing what was reality and what was dream/nightmare. I actually wish more time would have been spent on his recovery time and how his relationship with (Lieutenant) Mike developed. Obviously I'm in the minority, but I would have been happy for the book to check in on Zack in the various facilities every year, maybe on the anniversay of his freedom, and cut down on about 1/2 of the wordy, annoying agnst between Zack and David. I thought the author worked better with the dialog for Zack and David than the other characters, particularly Jane. Jane sounded so false in my head most of the time. Sometimes it felt like there were conversations or misunderstandings just to up the word count. Conclusion: my real life bookclub was reading The Catcher in the Rye this month, so I had plenty of mentally unstable characters in my life, not counting my family.


message 64: by Dev (last edited Mar 26, 2011 11:17AM) (new)

Dev Bentham | 1012 comments I love romance because it leaves me feeling openhearted and happy at the end. But this one left me feeling unsettled. I ended up staying up all night reading The Ghost Wore Yellow Socks to regain my equilibrium (I love Perry). Several things about Finding Zach bothered me. First, I didn't really like either Zach or David. I felt sorry for Zach, but they both seemed like such frat boys that it was hard for me to connect. Second, while I agree that Zach wasn't instantly healed by the end, his transformation from completely uncooperative patient to loving son and partner was pretty instantaneous. However, my biggest problem with the story is that everyone kept hitting, slapping and punching each other. It doesn't seem reasonable that one would slap a recently traumatized person on the back, even playfully (and everyone does it to him, even his mom) and when David punched Zach in the face? I don't care what your gender or how difficult your partner is being, punching is abusive. Actually, Zach's response to the punch seemed in keeping with a very abused person, hurt is love, but I don't think that's what the author intended. I wanted to like this book since it's the first time I'm participating in a discussion on this board but I really didn't. Can we read something more cheerful next time?


message 65: by Josh (new)

Josh (joshlanyon) | 23698 comments Mod
Conclusion: my real life bookclub was reading The Catcher in the Rye this month, so I had plenty of mentally unstable characters in my life, not counting my family.

:-D

It's very difficult writing mentally unstable characters without having them sound like book crazy. It's like...all serial killers have that same book voice. It drives me insane. (Not in a useful literary way, alas.)

Voice is a problem here anyway in that everyone in the damn book basically has the same speech patterns right down to their choice of sweary words and phrasing.

But I do think the author is at her best when she's deep in Zach's POV. Sure, some things didn't ring true for me, but those were actually minor quibbles.


message 66: by Audra Rickman (new)

Audra Rickman | 23 comments Speaking of Lieutenant Mike, I liked that character for the five or so pages he was mentioned. It was just so painfully obvious that he was only there to goad Zack and David into having sex. He was there in the begining, then dropped for 50 percent of the book, then brought back for 10 or so pages, then, oh well, we'll drop him back in at the end for closure. I think he was one the the missed opportunities of this book.


message 67: by Lora (new)

Lora | 58 comments Audra wrote: "Speaking of Lieutenant Mike, I liked that character for the five or so pages he was mentioned. It was just so painfully obvious that he was only there to goad Zack and David into having sex. He was..."

Yeah, what she said. I felt like the character went missing as well--shouldn't we have spent at least a little more time with him as Zach began to heal?


message 68: by Calathea (new)

Calathea | 6034 comments Terry wrote: "I ended up staying up all night reading The Ghost Wore Yellow Socks to regain my equilibrium (I love Perry)."
That's funny. I read the very same thing when I had to take a break with "Finding Zach". :-)


message 69: by Josh (new)

Josh (joshlanyon) | 23698 comments Mod
Can we read something more cheerful next time?

Both choices look fun to me, so I think you're in good shape for next month. Don't forget to vote in the poll.


message 70: by Susan (last edited Mar 26, 2011 11:34AM) (new)

Susan | 807 comments Josh wrote: "I had first purchased it because the synopsis indicated a level of suffering that I am a sucker for.

I love the honesty of this.

It's risky doing a story like this because so many readers a..."


After reading all your comments above, and then you posing this question, I want to ask, Those of us who 'like' angst did we get the payoff...? because now I am remembering that the first time I read the book I was damn annoyed when when Chapter 2 was Two Years Later. I wanted more of the recovery shown during that time; more of Zach's POV. That, for me, would have involved more payoff from his telling what he went through.


message 71: by Josh (new)

Josh (joshlanyon) | 23698 comments Mod
Audra wrote: "Speaking of Lieutenant Mike, I liked that character for the five or so pages he was mentioned. It was just so painfully obvious that he was only there to goad Zack and David into having sex. He was..."

She fooled me with Lt. Mike. I thought for sure he was going to play a more important role. In fact, I thought at first he would be the romantic interest. Or one romantic interest.


message 72: by Calathea (new)

Calathea | 6034 comments Lora wrote: "Audra wrote: "Speaking of Lieutenant Mike, I liked that character for the five or so pages he was mentioned. It was just so painfully obvious that he was only there to goad Zack and David into having sex. He was..."

Yeah, what she said. I felt like the character went missing as well--shouldn't we have spent at least a little more time with him as Zach began to heal?
"


I think so, too. After all Zach seemed to be very good friends with Lieutenant Mike when he reappeared in the middle of the story. I would have liked to see how this friendship happened.


message 73: by Josh (last edited Mar 26, 2011 11:32AM) (new)

Josh (joshlanyon) | 23698 comments Mod
However, my biggest problem with the story is that everyone kept hitting, slapping and punching each other. It doesn't seem reasonable that one would slap a recently traumatized person on the back, even playfully (and everyone does it to him, even his mom)

That's a good observation. That went right over my head.

and when David punched Zach in the face? I don't care what your gender or how difficult your partner is being, punching is abusive. .

That was just preposterous.

Actually, Zach's response to the punch seemed in keeping with a very abused person, hurt is love, but I don't think that's what the author intended.

I don't know. But I agree and I thought it was a nice touch.


message 74: by Josh (new)

Josh (joshlanyon) | 23698 comments Mod
What did you all think about Richard and Zach? I thought some of the best scenes were with the two of them.


message 75: by Josh (new)

Josh (joshlanyon) | 23698 comments Mod
because now I am remembering that the first time I read the book I was damn annoyed when when Chapter 2 was Two Years Later. I wanted more of the recovery shown during that time; more of Zach's POV

That's in my notes, as a matter of fact. Not so much seeing the recovery time as getting to the actual plot of the story (which I assumed to be the romance between Zach and David).

From my notes:

Chapter Three

TWO YEARS LATER seems like a pretty weird jump. It feels like this might have been the actual beginning of the book. I think it should have been. It would have been intriguing, interesting, we'd be eagerly reading to find out more. As it is, we already have all the answers about the past and everyone's relationship.

Here the story potentially starts to pick up. I like David. I like his insistance on steering clear and starting a new life -- oops. Unfortunately the second chapter exists merely to introduce David and bring the reader up to speed.



message 76: by Calathea (new)

Calathea | 6034 comments Josh wrote: "TWO YEARS LATER seems like a pretty weird jump. It feels like this might have been the actual beginning of the book. I think it should have been. It would have been intriguing, interesting, we'd be eagerly reading to find out more. As it is, we already have all the answers about the past and everyone's relationship."
During the story Zach kept having this nightmares with flashbacks. To me they felt like the style his narration in the first chapter had been. So I thought that the events of first chapter could have been revealed to the reader in the same way. Maybe then we wouldn't have had so much trouble with the leap in time.


message 77: by Audra Rickman (new)

Audra Rickman | 23 comments I liked Richard and Zack together. I think their personalities are the most similar and they understand each other. I also found it very credible that Richard would assume that Zack was dead, while it was implied that Jane refused to give up hope. I don't mean that Rchard gave up hope, I'm sure he wanted his son to be alive, I just think he was more realistic about the situation. (Generalizations ahead) As a mother, even though I have a medical background and an extremely analytical mind, I think I would have to see a body to believe my child was dead. All the blood evidence, etc wouldn't convince me until there was proof. I think this is true of most women. We like to beat that dead horse. See the success of books like: He Just Not That Into You. Jane still annoyed me though.


message 78: by Dev (new)

Dev Bentham | 1012 comments Richard seemed one of the more fully drawn characters. Jane and Annie were fairly flat characters. I also got annoyed by the nicknames. I understand that nicknames were a central motif in the novel and a plot point turned on "Taft", but some of the nicknames were confusing. For example, was Jenny a nickname or her real name?


Emanuela ~plastic duck~ (manutwo) | 1768 comments I'm already a bit behind, lol

Well, most moving moment. It's usually little gestures that gets to me, so I was really moved at the beginning by the military guys noticing Zach's discomfort and the lieutenant finding a way to ease his pain. It's the first REAL comfort Zach gets after he's freed and it made me think of the long road ahead for Zach to heal.

The most anticipated moment was of them meeting for the first time. If the author had dragged the "from Ice Queen to Zach" moment forever, I'd still be reading. I like tormenting myself with this.

Zach and Richard. I agree that their scenes worked. Like Audra said Richard's first reaction to the news they found Zach was plausible. Reading about the daily sessions with the shrink, I got the impression that Richard was in general more aware of what was happening, while Jane seemed more sheltered (or sheltering?). I wasn't enthusiast about her.


message 80: by Merith (new)

Merith | 361 comments Josh wrote: "Can we read something more cheerful next time?

Both choices look fun to me, so I think you're in good shape for next month. Don't forget to vote in the poll."


Self Preservation has a very strong "Best Friend's Wedding" sort of vibe. It's very funny in a lot of ways, and I love the interaction between Alex and Davis, and Deseree is so fun! But, there's some angst in there in thinking of what might have been.

Dash and Dingo is more an action adventure story, with fun times and sex tossed in. The romance takes rather a second seat, as the story is mainly about the two men finding the Tasmanian Devil and keeping him safe.


message 81: by Merith (new)

Merith | 361 comments Calathea wrote: "During the story Zach kept having this nightmares with flashbacks. To me they felt like the style his narration in the first chapter had been. So I thought that the events of first chapter could have been revealed to the reader in the same way. Maybe then we wouldn't have had so much trouble with the leap in time. "

I would have liked for the story to start at the 'two years later' and the backstory given in flashbacks, nightmares and the slow discourse of what happened rather than the reader having been given the gist at first, then pretty much the rest of his therapy glossed over.


message 82: by Dee Wy (new)

Dee Wy (deewy) I gave this story five stars. Not only did I enjoy the relationship between David and Zach, but I thought the author did a really good job of depicting roadblocks to Zach's recovery, such as the panic attacks. These seemed very realistic to me as part of dealing with PTSD.

I don't think anyone ever completely recovers from such horrendous events, but with the love and patience David showed towards Zach, and his determination not to let Zach run from problems that came up in the relationship, they can be dealt with with understanding.

The torture plot reminded me of Zsadist in J.R. Ward's Black Dagger Brotherhood series. It just took the right person to draw the protagonist out of his shell to give him a chance at a mostly normal life with a loving partner. Oh, yes, a HEA is a must and Finding Zach delivered.


message 83: by Susan (last edited Mar 27, 2011 07:22AM) (new)

Susan | 807 comments Josh wrote: "What did you all think about Richard and Zach? I thought some of the best scenes were with the two of them."

I agree that the author wrote some of the best scenes between Zach and Richard. In particular, I liked the pacing of the scene from Chapter 3 that starts in the parlor and ends beside the pool after the session with the therapist. The 2 of them discuss multiple subjects, and it all flows so naturally; you can feel the caring that Richard has for Zach. It's amazing to me that the author could write these 2 together so well, while the mother never comes off as more than an afterthought. She always seemed like a shell of a character that the author, for some reason, never was able to fully 'flesh out'.


message 84: by Calathea (last edited Mar 26, 2011 01:13PM) (new)

Calathea | 6034 comments Josh wrote: "What did you all think about Richard and Zach? I thought some of the best scenes were with the two of them."

I think Richard is a very important character in this story. We get to know him in the first chapter when he gets the message that his son is alive. Isn't this in first person, too? Anyway, I think that's reason he seems more real than all the other supportive characters.
His relationship with Zach is very strong. He is able to get his son to communicate and talk about his mental problems like his incertainty about what is reality and what not. And Zach seems to believe him when Richard tells him that everything is okay.
Richard is like the one stable/steady (what's the right word in this case?) factor in Zach's life.


message 85: by J. Rosemary (new)

J. Rosemary Moss (jrosemarymoss) | 71 comments Josh wrote: Those of you who dread angst -- did you feel like you got the payoff that made the pain worth it?

No--but not because of my prejudice against this level of angst. It wasn't worth the pain because I never grew attached to the characters; I never felt a real connection to them. I think I could have grown more attached if Zach had narrated more of the book--but, on the other hand, those first-person viewpoint sections also jarred me out of the rest of the novel. So I'm not sure they worked overall.

I was happy for Zach and David at the end. But it was the kind of happiness I'd feel for a distant cousin that I only knew from family get-togethers.

Merith wrote: By the end, we know that Zach isn't fully recovered, that he never will be back to where he was before, but he had the skills now to cope and the love of family and David to assuage him.

I agree with you here. The author did a good job of showing that Zach's healing process would continue, and that he would never be the person he was before.

Audra wrote: Speaking of Lieutenant Mike, I liked that character for the five or so pages he was mentioned. It was just so painfully obvious that he was only there to goad Zack and David into having sex. He was there in the begining, then dropped for 50 percent of the book, then brought back for 10 or so pages, then, oh well, we'll drop him back in at the end for closure. I think he was one the the missed opportunities of this book.

I agree. He stopped feeling like a real character to me when it was clear his only purpose was to encourage Zach to go to David. But I think he could have been a wonderful character--and I love the fact that this knight-in-shining armor wasn't Zach's love interest.


message 86: by Blaine (new)

Blaine (blainedarden) So many opinions already, I almost feel mine is obsolete ...

Anyway ... angstwise, this wasn't as bad as I expected it to be. It started out heavy, but quickly faded, almost too quickly. Of course, not really being into angst, I was glad not to have to cry. But considering the topic, I'm disappointed that my eyes stayed dry.
I'd rate it lukewarm, and I think that's partly because of the two years later gimmick. I think the story would have been a lot better had that been included.

I also thought Lieutenant Mike would have a more important role. It felt very strange to read from his pov, and then he disappeared (well, came back for a sort of brief encore).

The relationship, I think was worked out very sloppily. The punch seemed very out of character for David, a David that developed a gadget, so what happened to Zach, wouldn't happen to someone else. He loved Zach that much. The punch was a definite no-no for me.
And then you have all those 'big misunderstandings', one after another. Every confrontation was of the molehill into a mountain proportion. It was so over the top and unnecessary to me. I actually started to sigh at some point, because I was so done with that. It almost seemed like they misunderstood each other on purpose, a childish sort of game to get a reaction, attention.

Yes, the parts between Zach and his father were good.
His mother was as overprotective as I'd expect her to be of a 15 yr old. For her time really had stood still. Doesn't mean I liked her behaviour all of the time, but it fit her character well.

I do applaud the writer for taking a chance with such a delicate subject, but in the end I thought it was just a passable story and I really, really wanted to read about those two years that were skipped.

That said, Zach's journey, Zach's healing is not finished and I think the writer did a good job portraying that. She may have made mistakes, strange choices, but she did not take the easy way out with Zach's recovery. I just wish it had been a little more consistent.


message 87: by Blaine (new)

Blaine (blainedarden) Oh, one more thing ... small detail. Something that kept bothering me.
I found it so strange that the wife of Richard's former partner worked for them as a live-in-maid sort of position. That just didn't gel for me.
Putting her up in a small cottage on the land, I'd go for that, but this solution seemed a little far-fetched to me. (I'd think as wife of a partner, she'd at least inherit his shares in the company, unless I've missed something ... which does happen)


message 88: by Cleon Lee (last edited Mar 26, 2011 07:15PM) (new)

Cleon Lee | 2235 comments Hi, all. I just finished reading this book. Hope you don't mind if I jump in.

I studied Clinical Psychology to be a psychologist a while back (although it didn't work out). One thing that bothers me is that Zach had no one on one session with the therapist after he went home. All sessions included his parents. That is very strange to me because it is very important for him to be able to talk freely without pressure from anyone. In fact, most therapies rely on one on one sessions, unless it's a family therapy.


message 89: by ns (new)

ns (vedi) In the last 24 hours, I've read Finding Zach, Driftwood (Harper Fox) and Bound (Megan Derr).

I found Finding Zach to be poor, honestly. I hate criticizing authors in public, so I'll refrain from going into why it wasn't for me (This is the first time I've ever joined a public discussion or reading group). There was just too much lacking, all in all.

The comparisons with the other two books I mentioned are stark.

Driftwood is exquisite writing. Harper Fox is supremely talented. The ending did get a bit unrealistic to buy, logistically speaking, and it would have unravelled a bit, but her writing mastery is sufficient to get us to suspend disbelief and stay with her to the end.

Megan Derr is one of my favorite writers - period, not just m/m. Bound is charming romantic fantasy, not quite the same genre, more fairy tale (If you don't love Megan Derr, you have no innocence left in your DNA).

Interestingly enough, both books had some themes of abuse, torture and recovery. I'd recommend either of those two books over Finding Zach.


message 90: by Merith (new)

Merith | 361 comments Lidya wrote: "I studied Clinical Psychology to be a psychologist a while back (although it didn't work out). One thing that bothers me is that Zach had no one on one session with the therapist after he went home. All sessions included his parents. That is very strange to me because it is very important for him to be able to talk freely without pressure from anyone. In fact, most therapies rely on one on one sessions, unless it's a family therapy."

Actually, he had the "group" therapy in the mornings with his folks and one-on-one therapy in the afternoons, just him. I thought the same thing at first, but there was one part when the doctor told Zach he could talk about it with him during their afternoon session. Of course, I can't remember what it was they were supposed to talk about now. Just remember Zach talking about his afternoon sessions with the therapist.


message 91: by Cleon Lee (new)

Cleon Lee | 2235 comments Just remember Zach talking about his afternoon sessions with the therapist.

Still seems strange that the story does not tell us about his individual sessions at all.

I think this is my main disappointment with this book. I thought I'd find an interesting read about recovery from PTSD but the book does not describe the recovery and transition well enough. I can't see the process of being nearly catatonic to almost functional adult at all. I wish the author had read more about PTSD, especially in such a severe case, before she tackled the subject.

However, compared to many other authors I have read, she writes very well as a beginner.


message 92: by Cleon Lee (new)

Cleon Lee | 2235 comments I haven't read any book by Megan Derr and Harper Fox. I'll add these two books to my to-read list. Thanks for the recommendation.


message 93: by ns (new)

ns (vedi) Lidya wrote: "I haven't read any book by Megan Derr and Harper Fox. I'll add these two books to my to-read list. Thanks for the recommendation."

You're welcome!

In addition to Harper's Driftwood, I've read Life After Joe (excellent) and Salisbury Key (good, not great).

Megan Derr - I now own and have read everything she has written, but I'm particularly fond of :

Fairy Tales I & II Slashed
Magic and Mischief
Midsummer's Moon, Curse, and Law
The Bastard Prince
Behind the Mask
Ink and Paper
The Matchmaker
Locke and Key
Sandstorm
Dire Straits
The Jewels of Bangkok
Runaways
Embrace
Highland Wolves: Ulrich
..I just realized I was listing all my Megan Derr books...sigh..sorry


message 94: by Yvonne (last edited Mar 26, 2011 09:43PM) (new)

Yvonne (ysareader) I agree with Josh comments that the story would have been stronger starting with the reunion chapter and going into what happened in flashbacks (although plenty of people hate flashback stories) . But I think if we had spent time on his early recovery (those 2 years the writer skipped), the story would have turned too dark & too depressing.

What the scenes would have had to consist of would be going through all the torment, torture, rape details, humiliation etc. that happened to Zach. I think there's a danger in writing what I call angst porn where it's written to titillate and manipulate emotions.
An example would be Red-Tainted Silence which I hated for veering into that category.

I think for Finding Zach, the writer made the right choice in going towards a more hopeful direction with the story, especially as this is written for the Romance genre.

As for the PTSD descriptions, I've read an interview with Rowan Speedwell in which she has stated she suffered from PTSD and based the book on her experience with that & her psychiatry sessions ( and amplified it based on the extremes that Zach went through).

There are also so few cases of children/teens who were kidnapped & held prisoner & then rescued, that there has not been any psychiatric consensus on the right treatments for them. I think this gives a writer a lot of leeway in how they can write a story such as this.

I did like this story. There were flaws of course (that punch--Zach is trying to feel safe & trust again. This feels like a betrayal on David's part) But for the most part, I feel that the writer succeeded in writing a hopeful story about a damaged individual.


message 95: by Nichem (new)

Nichem | 27 comments Lidya wrote: "Just remember Zach talking about his afternoon sessions with the therapist.

Still seems strange that the story does not tell us about his individual sessions at all.

I think this is my main dis..."


That was one of my big problems with the book too. I've had psyc training as well (was a psychology major in college and did a psychiatry rotation in med school), and too much of the psychology stuff didn't ring true. It didn't make sense to me that Zach would still be having therapy sessions twice daily, 7 days a week. The therapy sessions with the parents seemed off too, and I was surprised the therapist didn't react to the news of the punching. I also wish the author had included the individual sessions and felt an actual therapist would have included David in some of the sessions as well once he and Zach became involved. I also felt that Zach going from 2 or 3 word responses to fairly chatty just after he and David were together for the first time was a bit unrealistic.

Overall, I did like the book, but I definitely had some issues with it. In addition to the psyc issues, I was frustrated by the continued misunderstandings between Zach and David as others have mentioned. This is one of those books that could have been great in the hands of a more experienced author, but instead is just good.


message 96: by Cleon Lee (new)

Cleon Lee | 2235 comments I've had psyc training as well (was a psychology major in college and did a psychiatry rotation in med school), and too much of the psychology stuff didn't ring true.

Perhaps it is the problem with reading something that we have intimate knowledge about. Like cops reading detective or cop story. lol.


message 97: by [deleted user] (last edited Mar 27, 2011 01:15AM) (new)

I'm sorry to say that I dropped the book at about 10%. By then there were 4 persons' POV and even more switches between the POV's, which was annoying. The inconsistency of Zach's mental condition bothered me but I thought, heck, what do I know... maybe such a mismatch between the inner voice and articulation is possible. Like if a person unconsciously blocks his reactions to those of a dog. I'm not a psychiatrist, so I let it slide. Still, I couldn't get into the book... I can't say that the writing was boring, but it wasn't very interesting either. I felt like I was trying to walk in a goo - too much thinking and self-reflections, too little people actually doing anything, and when they did, it felt forced. All-in-all, the book (well, the part I've managed) left an impression of amateurish writing.

Btw, I don't think an author can use the fact he or she is not familiar with the field/profession/history etc as an excuse to write wrong or unrealistic stuff. A thorough relevant research must be done. Otherwise your writing will be amateurish by definition.


message 98: by Dev (new)

Dev Bentham | 1012 comments It makes sense to me that the author has experience with PTSD and stress reactions since the anxiety scenes were vivid and moving.


message 99: by Merith (new)

Merith | 361 comments Yvonne wrote: "There were flaws of course (that punch--Zach is trying to feel safe & trust again. This feels like a betrayal on David's part) "

I must be in a minority here, then. See, I thought that punch was the one, truly honest thing David did! In David's head, Zach did exactly what David told him he didn't want to happen, regardless of Zach's psychosis. I don't think David would do it again, because now he knows what he's up against, and how Zach will behave if pushed or thinks he's being pushed. And he knows the history.


message 100: by Jordan (new)

Jordan Lombard (jslombard) | 15328 comments Mod
Josh wrote: "Some general notes from the first couple of chapters -- I made these as I read:

"Captain John Rogers" seems to set the tone and it bugged me in that we didn't know what type of unit, etc. Marine..."


Josh, you hit the nail on the head with the way Zach's mind was working. It was such an odd switch for me to have him barking one minute and angry, speaking human the next. It didn't seem realistic to me at all.

Scary thing is, I wrote something very similar years ago for fanfiction, putting a character in a similar situation as Zach's, with the past lover coming to the rescue. It was interesting to compare the two, just because we handled the idea so differently.

His POV change was awkward too, and completely threw me for a loop. The first chapter was the best. I loved how it started, though I agree, some extra description would have been nice. I was sad to see the big tough dudes disappear, and the tone of the story change so dramatically.

I also didn't feel like we needed his POV in first person there, because he was simply retelling the reader what the army dudes had already figured out. If we'd had his POV first, and then the army guys figure it out, it might have worked better, I think.

His POV in first person suddenly showing up at the end threw me for another loop too. Really unnecessary, I think.


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