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And the winner is.......Queen Hereafter: A Novel of Margaret of Scotland by Susan Fraser King. It was a close one, with Susan's book Lady Macbeth as a close second. Enjoy the reading, all!!

That's funny that it was 2 books for the same authoring fighting for first place :)

I know. Seems like it was her time, huh?

I guess so! I actually voted for the other one but I'm good with either ... or both ;)

Same here. I voted for the other, but they both look good.

Just ordered my copy should be here Monday may have to start early !

Sounds great, Paula. I will post discussion questions as soon as I get my copy from the library. I think I am first on the list, so it shouldn't take very long.

Ooo, looks good! I've just bought my kindle copy--love that one click button; instant satisfaction :)

I know, Tina. A dangerous, dangerous thing in my house!!

i still have not tried it. what happens to a book after you read it? is it still stored in the kindle?

Priya wrote: "i still have not tried it. what happens to a book after you read it? is it still stored in the kindle?"

Yes, once you've bought a Kindle book it's yours forever (or at least until Kindle goes out of business and even then you could strip the DRM to use it on any other ereader). You can even delete it from your Kindle device and it will still be stored in your account "archive" to be re-accessed at any time.

I'm excited about this book - I recently read a book on medieval kings in Scotland which was my first real exposure to Scottish monarchy apart from Mary, Queen of Scots (and a little of Robert Bruce). So I've been itching to read some fiction on the topic too - this couldn't have been better timed!

Priya wrote: "i still have not tried it. what happens to a book after you read it? is it still stored in the kindle?"

Priya - I'm surprised that you haven't used an e-reader. They are great, especially for someone who travels as much as you do. I still love the feeling of a book in my hands, but I love my nook!!

I'm a little disappointed this novel is written in both first and third person. It seems to be a growing trend and normally, it just doesn't work for me. The only time I think it works well is when the book is set in different time periods so one time period in first person and one time period in third person helps set the two apart. But that's not the case with this book so I'm finding it a bit jarring - just as I'm settling into third person, it jumps to first person and vice versa. I think if it just stuck to third person, it would be a really great book so I'm trying to overlook it.

This book grabbed my attention at the first chapter and hasn't let it go! Margaret & Malcolm are new for me, as well as Susan Fraser King, so I think that's part of the appeal...I'm 26% into it & find myself thinking about it when I'm not reading it--a sure sign I'm enjoying it :)

I'm reading a little slowly (too many books at one time -- how's a girl to choose??), but so far I love Susan Fraser King's treatment of this particular period, and characters, of history. I've read a few novels set during this time, and as far as the writing and history goes, she is the best yet. Can't wait to read further!

I'm almost half done - my thoughts so far: *May contain minor spoilers*

It finally seems to have settled into third person so I'm enjoying it more.

But I am finding it slightly unrealistic how little conflict among characters there is. All the characters seem to get along reasonably well and any conflicts between them are quickly resolved. For example, I expected Agnes, the chatelaine, to take offence to all of Margaret's changes to the running of the household but she doesn't. Also, Eva quickly finds a lot of respect for Margaret and I really expected it to take longer for them to warm to each other.

I am finding Margaret's internal conflicts with herself interesting, as well as Eva's background. The historical setting and culture is very detailed and obviously well researched, which I also appreciate. But I'm finding the relationships among all the characters dull and unrealistic, especially when that seems to be a big focus of the book.

****may contain spoilers
Robin, I agree with some of your comments.
While overall I enjoyed the book, I found that Eva as a whole seemed like an unnecessary 'add in' character. I think that there was so much more development that could have been done without her character in the book. More conflict, more about the second half of Margaret and Malcom's life, etc--Eva just seems unnecessary to me.

OK. I admit that, while I love the history of Royalty, I am not an expert. I JUST realized who this book was about. Ya--I know, I'm hopelessly bad. I promise to get up to speed soon!!!!

Finally started, I really like what I know of Margaret, really don't want the book to spoil her for me so kept putting off starting. So far dealing with the jumps in 1st and 3rd person

I'm about 20% or so in - I don't mind the 1st/3rd person narrative but it seems Margaret is almost too good to be realistic. Maybe I'm just not far enough into the book but she seems a bit one-dimensional at this point. That said, I am liking it.

Edited: Just realized Robin said pretty much the same thing I did only better (I had avoided reading her comment because of the spoiler alert at the beginning).

Just started the book. I'm not having too much trouble dealing with the jump between 1st/3rd person so far. I don't really care for Margaret at this point- never liked 'perfect' people. I like her sister much better (so far)

Christine, I like the one dimensional comment! I agree Margaret seems to perfect. I know there is not huge amounts of material about her but this is fiction and while I like my historical fiction as close as possible some more emotion and connection between Margaret and Malcolm would be good. There is enough about Grudah and Eva to make me feel that the author wanted to write a sequel to Lady Mcbeth rather than a new novel about Margaret

She does seem too perfect but I remind myself that she was canonized after all and so was quite literally considered a saint. I think the author was just trying to be historically accurate. Margaret reminds me a bit of Katherine of Aragon with the fasting and piousness.

DISCUSSION QUESTIONS

Just some questions to help us think about the book:

1. Those that have already read the book have mentioned that the author switches between first and third person. Why do you think the author uses this method of writing? Do you find it distracting (some have already mentioned that the do).

2. Who do you think is the strongest character in this book. By "strongest character" I mean who does the author do the best job at developing. Who is the weakest character. Who is your favorite character, your least favorite.

3. One of the things I like the most about reading historical fiction is that it inspires me to read more on certain characters and thus learn more about actual history. After reading this book, is Margaret of Scotland someone you would like to know more about? If not, is there anyone in the story that you would like to read more about, and if so, who and why?

Hope these help. Have fun, and I will list others if I can come up with any, lol.

1 - I always feel first person allows the author to really get into the heart and soul of a character but the trouble is, it means you only get to see what the main character sees and that can make the telling of the plot difficult. I've noticed it becoming more and more popular for authors to mix points of view in order to blend the best of both worlds. Also becoming more common is two different first person point's of view. I usually just find it distracting - it reminds me I'm reading a modern telling of the story rather than allowing myself to get lost in the tale. Fortunately, in this one, the jumping around was restricted to the beginning so it wasn't too bad.

2 - I think Margaret and Eva were the best developed characters - the weakest, everyone else. The book seemed to focus on Margaret and Eva so they received all the attention and everyone else was underdeveloped. I know Margaret's perfection could be annoying but like I say, I think the author was trying to be historically accurate and she certainly succeeded in painting Margaret as a saint. But I was a little disappointed the novel didn't spend more time examining Margaret as a mother since my little understanding of her was that she was a huge influence on her sons, 3 of whom became kings of Scotland (again, this relates to my feelings that the relationships between characters were poorly developed).

3 - Maybe... I do find this time period interesting. I read a little bit about Margaret in Gothic Kings of Britain: The Lives of 31 Medieval Rulers, 1016-1399 but she featured little more than a footnote. So I was excited to read more on her in a novel but it was a bit disappointing.

My answers to the discussion questions:

1. Going from first to third person didn't bother me so much but switching between different first person narrators did in this case. I agree with Robin that the 1st person POV is useful when trying to convey the mind and feelings of the character but I'm thankful the author didn't continue with it and stuck with the third person after a while.

2. As the main female protagonists, obviously Eva and Margaret are going to be the strongest characters in the story. If I had to choose between the two, I would pick Eva only because she is a fictional character. It's easier developing someone in your imagination in my opinion as opposed to Margaret who is limited by what the sources say in order to create a believable character from a historical figure. Furthermore, in the author's note, King says, "Modern historians accept that Margaret was that good and more, but they point out her other side, too: a complex, highly educated woman obsessively driven by demanding socioreligious standards...." I see this in the story but overall, Margaret came across as more naive and innocent, almost child-like, in her views of the world. Furthermore, I think without Eva, this story could have easily turned into a modern-day hagiography on the good works of Saint Margaret. Eva grounded the story to the human realm.

The weakest character is a bit more difficult. Since this is a novel about Margaret, I didn't expect all the characters to be as fleshed out as her character. Again, if I had to choose, I would pick Edgar. We see him making an appearance here and there but I honestly didn't really get much of a sense of the historical Edgar from him.

3. I would read more on the period in general just because I don't know much pre-Norman history and also the history of the other countries comprising the UK. Concerning specific people, I would like to know more about Lady Gruadh and her son Lulach (something about the losers in history always interests me). If I had to read anything about Margaret, I would prefer to read something concerning the woman and not the saint.

Some other thoughts:

It's funny how the beginning of the story reminded me very much of a short story I wrote in college concerning the Norman conquest. I imagine Margaret's story could be any Saxon's story (just not on such a grand scale) considering how cataclysmic the Norman invasion was to English history. It was definitely a major turning point for the people.

Some have said that the lack of conflict between characters is unrealistic but to be honest, that didn't bother me. I think the goodness in Margaret's character just didn't really allow for extended conflict between her and others. How can you find fault with someone so good to the Scottish people and pious in her devotions? There is a scene between Lady Gruadh, Ruari, and Drostan that I think says this the best:
"Bless Eva for sending news at last," she said, patting the leather purse at her belt, where she had tucked the parchment Drostan had delivered that day. "For all it is a catalog of praises. I want truth."
"There is much to praise in Margaret, and that is truth," Drostain said calmly.
"Even Eva hints at the queen's perfection and saintliness. It is much to bear," Gruadh said.

However, I do sympathize very much with Lady Gruadh here in that it's hard to fight change with someone so saintly.

I agree that Margaret seemed too good to be true but again, I expected that. Probably most of what survives on her in the primary sources is her good works as queen and also stories of her devoutness of faith. I don't know that for a fact since again, I haven't read anything on her but judging from reading this, I assume that is the case.

A little farther in and Margaret is starting to be not so perfect :) I do wish there was more "meat" to the story, it seems to be going terribly fast (I'm just over 1/2 done as had spent the early part of the week with another book) but don't really feel like I am getting to know the characters - not sure if I'm saying it correctly but I don't think I'll mourn for anyone if and when they die (frequently bawl over SKP's peeps when they pass).

I am still curious about Lady MacBeth so I may pick that up after I'm done with this one.

Same here, Christine. I am thinking I want to read Lady MacBeth soon.

1. I didn't mind the first person/third person switching and was quite disappointed when that only lasted the first few chapters. I like when books use that method so you can see the action outside of the main character but you also get intimate knowledge of whats going on in the character's head. I don't know why the author didn't carry this all the way through the book, maybe she just wanted to introduce the characters in an attempt to get readers to connect with the characters.

2. I think the strongest character was actually Eva. Like some others have said, this may be because she was a fictional character and so the author had more room to develop the character. All of the supporting characters were very weak. The weakest character by far was Edgar. You never really got to see him in action or got to know him as a person.

3. I don't know if I want to read more about Margaret after this book. I would like to read more about the supporting characters in the book: Malcolm, Edgar, Lady Gruadh. I want to read more about medieval royalty since I haven't read much about that time period before.

Other Comments:
- I think the ending was just too cleanly wrapped up. Everyone was happy and there was no conflict. There was very little conflict throughout the entire book. Margaret just seemed to get her way in everything.
- I'm wondering if King's Margaret had a touch of OCD. It seems like she had a lot of compulsions to pray and give alms and was obsessed with her sins (real and imaginary). Maybe that was just the way people approached religion during the time period, but it seems as though King was trying to convince the readers that there was something more than just religiosity fueling all the praying and fasting.

I wrapped up yesterday and continue to think that it felt very superficial-it may have been better to develop the main Margaret/Malcolm relationship as there seemed to be a quite a story there as well as the possible anorexia (and OCD? - thanks Christie) while I'm not convinced a purely fictional character (Eva) was necessary or what she added. Some of Margaret's actions (even though they were based on historical record) seemed odd - perhaps because we never really got into her head so these events felt like they came out of left field. Even the details of everyday life could have been ... more. While the author addressed not wanting a 1000 page book if everything had been included however it was just too skimpy in terms of character development. I did like the notes at the end-usually my favorite part of historical fiction :). I'm rethinking Lady McBeth - I haven't checked out the page count but if it has a similar surface feel I would probably be disappointed in it.

Christine wrote: "I wrapped up yesterday and continue to think that it felt very superficial-it may have been better to develop the main Margaret/Malcolm relationship as there seemed to be a quite a story there as w..."

I wanted more dealing with the relationship between Margaret and Malcolm as well. From what King did have in her novel, they seemed to be rather an odd pair.

I was slightly disappointed in this book, I wanted more on Malcolm and Margaret less Eva.

The first / third voice I grew used to but was glad when we stayed with third. I agree with Christine in terms of character development, I did not get as involved with Margaret as I had hoped maybe that was the problem I had high expectations before startng. I have read Lady McBeth and will be interested to read others comments.

I was pretty disappointed in it. The character development of both the major and supporting characters seemed weak. I really think a great deal could have been done with it, but didn't feel that the author got into the characters at all.

You know just because Margaret was good to people didn't mean she had to be such a goody-two-shoes. That didn't follow. Having an entire novel saying how sweet and perfect someone is makes for a boring novel. There was ample conflict going on in the period and there had to be between them considering how different they were, that something could have been done with it.

I really fault the author for not doing what could have been done with the material. It's what I've run into in say Tranter's novel about Wallace--if you're afraid to tackle the material, it's going to ruin the novel.

I started Queen Hereafter today...only just...pg 40 soething...I'm enjoying it so far..glad of the family tree at the beginning, lots of people I am not immediately familiar with. Looking forward to more reading. I haven't read anything by SFK but so far, all is good.

I'm glad you are enjoying it so far, Shirley. I need to get started on this one myself.

I read some more last night and finding it quite good. I don't mind the first/third person but I was disappointed to find that Eva was fictional. I don't think I'm giving anything away by saying this, it's obvious from the beginning and a number of people have talked about it already in this thread. It will be interesting to see if my thoughts parallel those stated above. I try not to read too much of others' comments, I don't want to be influenced one way or the other.

I'm going to start this one today and hopefully get through it by Friday. Ugh, library books. This is why I buy books ... no deadlines :P (OK... I buy books cause I want to but it's nice to have an excuse)

Glad that you're liking it!

YA, Jen, you can try to justify it, but it won't work, lol. I am going to be reading this one later this week or early next week.

Has Jen mentioned she tried to get me to buy some of the books we want to read...knowing full well they will end up on her bookshelves???
I'm getting a little overwhelmed with the library books on hold, just coming up for me to get out...after all, it's gardening season...I have a ton of gardening books out along with the historical stuff and others.......ugh!!!!!

Well yeah... but I also said I was going to buy some so I think that's only fair :P

I can see her doing that, lol. If it makes you feel any better, I am buying my mom books for Mother's Day, but they are ones that I want to read also. Another loophole in my decreased buying resolve. :) We addicts get our books any way we can, right Jen?

Yes that's fair that you buy some and put them on your shelf:P lol, (I suppose I should put that, not everyone knows you're my daughter.)

LOL So are you saying it's okay if I buy you books for Mother's Day and then take them when you're finished with them and never give them back? Saves me from buying jewelery or whatever :P

Absolutely not!!!
I want presents for just me, not to share!!!

Ugh... so selfish! :P

So... getting back on track... (sorry everyone!) what's everyone thinking of the book?

I'm not sure what's going on with me. I'm liking it but just not loving it and having a hard time getting into it. I can't figure out why though... the writing is good, the characters are well-written, the history and everything is great... it's just not clicking the way I want it to. Anyone else having this problem?

Jennifer wrote: "Ugh... so selfish! :P"

Fat chance my daughter gets anything off MY bookshelf. Of course, come to think of it, these days my bookshelf is on my Kindle. :)

LOL I have all of mom's books :)

As I do for my Mom, lol. We even share our Nook bookshelf.

Jennifer - I think a few people said that they didn't really get into it the way that they hoped. I am starting it this week, so I shall see what I think.

This book was so so for me. Being that it is a fictional account of Margaret's life, I was expecting a more 'fleshed out' character. I didn't feel that I got to know Margaret, or any of the other historical figures in the story.