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Discuss here. Titles do not have to be exclusively LGBT.

Nice one!

I think I just wanted to pay homage to a contemporary classic that has brought the L of LGBT into the pantheon of classics (or brought it back, from a longer perspective): The Color Purple.

Apart from its popularity, apart from the outcry against it from part of the reading (I'm not sure if 'reading' fully applies to people who won't admit there is domestic violence, but 'reading-of-sort' maybe) public, what makes it a classic?

I've only seen the movie which is great, IMO. It started my respect for Oprah. How does the book compare?

I've always enjoyed how Fannie Flagg incorporated the lesbian subtext of Fried Green Tomatoes. Very well done and natural.

Kernos wrote: "I've only seen the movie which is great, IMO. It started my respect for Oprah. How does the book compare?"

I have some issues with the film, at least from the point of view of how I read the novel.

In the novel, the journey towards self-discovery and towards emancipation is much more in depth, more tortuous and more sexual.

Spielberg produces a great film, very colourful in its photography, but I think he plays down some elements. For example, I think he misses the whole symbolic value of knitting, which becomes Celie's way to her financial independence. There is also, of course, the slow process of using a skill traditionally associated, in Literature and in History, with women to overcome male dominance. It's a beautiful touch in the novel, it seems to me to say that women already have the skills and ability to be independent of men (independent, not antagonistic). I feel in the film Celie is more saved by Shug (which is partly true) than the author of her own salvation. I read Shug as 'the trigger' (which in the novel is the way the clitoris is mention) as well as the support in Celie's path to freedom, while in the film, and this is an impression, she seems to be the engine... This said, Alice Walker oversaw the shooting of the film, so, I suppose it is as close to what the author intended as can possibly be.

I certainly like how the falling in love between Celie and Shug happens naturally, almost away from the readers' (autocorret wanted 'adders' go and understand..) and the viewer' eyes. I need to rephrase: it is there, visible, but there are no comments on it, no value judgements, whether for or against it, which is one of the powerful statements of the novel and film: in this sort of covert silence, very subtle in my opinion, Walker is saying that there should be no judgement or comment on sexual orientation. I think her impressive ability to communicate without saying has opened the door of mainstream Literature to lesbian characters. It is a stroke of genius: in a novel where everything seems to be charged with social values and references, lesbian love appears as the most natural of all features. It's as if she was saying, 'So what? I didn't make an issue of it, why should you?'

Walker has the incredible ability to present readers with facts that if disputed make the readers sound as if they are going out of their way to be obtuse, confrontational and clearly ill-intentioned. She sort of silences opposition with common sense.
While male gay Literature has often confronted prejudice, maybe because boys will be boys, Walker just annihilates it. There is an element of utopia, in this respect, in The Color Purple and it is the element related to lesbian love. The rest is harsh reality.

From a literary point of view, she goes back to none less than Sappho herself in the way lesbian love is presented against all odds as simply love. I don't know if you have read her few poems (a new one was discovered just last year or so), but I have always been struck by the natural presentation of love, and, though we know little about Sappho, let us say nigh on nothing, the reality of most Greek πόλεις was not woman-friendly at all; with the known exception of Sparta on mainland Greece, women were regarded as objects, non-human, almost farm animals to produce children and run the household (take away almost) and had no rights, not even the right to be seen in public... Call that democracy! Celie's situation is not far from that of an Ancient Greek woman: she is a sexual object, not even appreciated for it, uneducated (we all still wonder how Sappho could write), in a phallocratic and rural environment (forget calling them cities, Athens never passed 100,000 inhabitants in its heyday, and most of them were slaves and women, you see where I am going with the 'democracy of the few' argument), and both of them live within the the time one could regard as the early years of a new culture, yet both of them can see freedom, in its purest form, through sexuality and sex, (and if autocorrect does not learn that there is a possessive 'its' as well I will go mad) where freedom does not seem to be on the horizon. That is visionary in its most beautiful sense.

A lover of the classics like me... May I just say that the most 'classic' of all the 'gay classics' is, very likely, Maurice?

Adriano wrote: "A lover of the classics like me... May I just say that the most 'classic' of all the 'gay classics' is, very likely, Maurice?"

Call me shallow, but I actually like the movie better than the book.

The only movie I can remember liking better than the book is "Soylent Green" the movie vs Make Room Make Room by Harry Harrison

How about anything Renault? Like The Last of the Wine (1956) and The Persian Boy (1972)?

And Wingmen (1979).

And Giovanni's Room (1956).

And as far as lesbian works, The Price of Salt (1952), Patience & Sarah (1969), Rubyfruit Jungle (1973), and Annie on My Mind (1982).

I'll keep thinking to see if I can come up with more.

How about works by Christopher Isherwood? I haven't read anything yet but he's on my list.

Forbidden Colors and Confessions of a Mask by Yukio Mishima

Orlando by Virginia Woolf

And a bit of a stretch perhaps but suggestive: Carmilla by Joseph Sheridan Le Fanu

Carola wrote: "How about works by Christopher Isherwood? I haven't read anything yet but he's on my list.

I've only read one of his autobiographies, Christopher and His Kind, but it was very readable and enjoyable.

Remembrance of Things Past is both classic and gay. A gay classic. I always remember my shock when midway through the hidden gay world is revealed to the narrator as Baron Charlus and some servant start putting the moves on each other. I'd had no idea such a classic was so gay.

Monica wrote: "Remembrance of Things Past is both classic and gay. A gay classic. I always remember my shock when midway through the hidden gay world is revealed to the narrator as Baron Charlus an..."

That's how I felt. It's amazing that he wrote the way he did, about these subjects -- isn't it? And the fact we didn't understand that until we got there, means the book isn't as famous as it might be, as gay writing?

I failed a couple of times when I started at the start; then I found out people do read the Albertine Cycle on its own. So, I began with Sodom and Gomorrah, for obvious reasons; no doubt less than ideal to readers of the whole, but it did let me read a gay classic, where the subject matter becomes gay.

Also, I had heard he was negative in attitude, but I didn't find it so: I talk about that in my review...
/review/show...

Not sure exactly what constitutes a classic but when it comes to gay fiction one should probably include

The Persian Boy
Maurice
A Single Man
The Front Runner
Tales of the City
Brokeback Mountain

They're all amazing reads in their own right and they sort of each encapsulate their eras as well.

Bryn wrote: "I failed a couple of times when I started at the start"

Yes, couple of false starts and lots of breaks. But I had to read it beginning to end; I'm the rare person who read it for the plot. When the Ruiz movie came out as I was starting the last volume, I almost didn't go see it because I didn't want any spoilers.

Carola wrote: "How about works by Christopher Isherwood? I haven't read anything yet but he's on my list.

Forbidden Colors and Confessions of a Mask by [author:Yukio Mish..."

Great choice! I love the Queen of Literature, so, I can only kneel in front of Woolf; Carmilla is quite saucy and literary at the same time, very cheeky for the time! Isherwood, I found a bit 'dusty' personally; I mean, he conveys a melancholy feel (I read his Berlin novels only, not all his opus though), I liked that, but I found a certain lack of colours in his writing; it is likely that he meant it, like a black and white, maybe more sepia film, or a fading memory, but I need colours, despite the fact that I see colours that are not really there all the time. No, it's not a hallucinogenic, it's a condition I have... Anyway, I felt his words too turned down the light on their innate colours, so they sort of clashed with me: used to having colours flashing in front of my eyes constantly, my mind must have resisted his style in a way, or not accepted the sepia scale... Just my personal experience.

@Stephen, I've read most of those - fantastic picks!

@Adriano, you might want to try A Single Man if you haven't read it yet. I agree with Stephen - some striking stuff in there, especially the arresting extended metaphor toward the end.

@Carola, I love Woolf in general and Orlando in particular. I have yet to meet a book by Woolf that I don't like.

@Kerri, when it's up to me, Baldwin is always a good choice!