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This is the BOOK AS A WHOLE and FINAL THOUGHTS thread. This is a spoiler thread meaning that any part of the book can be discussed here at any time.

So if you do not like "spoilers" I would suggest you remain on the weekly threads.

For those of you who have read the book before and want to comment, or for those who finish books or a group selection early, this is always the thread where you can write your thoughts and post your ideas and final opinions about the book selection as a whole.

Please be mindful to be considerate of the book and the author at all times and show respect for the selection which was voted for by the group membership. Also be respectful of other group members' differing opinions.

Bentley

Demetria stated on a non spoiler thread the following. We moved it to this thread which is the appropriate placement for thoughts about the books which do not contribute to the discussion but are an evaluation.

Demetria stated:

I didnt like this book very much.

Brian, the assisting moderator for the discussion responded:

Sorry, to hear that, Demetria. I do think Clinton gets a little bogged down with the stories and sometimes isn't as concise or clear, but I'd like to hear more once we post the Book as a Whole thread.

Vince, a group member stated in response:

I too am sorry to hear that Demetria doesn't like the book - she says "didn't" as if she had already finished it and I think that so far - it is more giving a perspective of how Clinton thinks and if that is a bogged down or slower way of expressing it maybe that is part of how he is.

So far I really like the book - he gives more than history but also his reasoning.

My comments: (Demetria's comment and all subsequent comments related to Demetria's post have been moved to a more appropriate location - a spoiler - Book as a Whole thread)

Demetria, I am sorry that you did not like the book very much; I have twice had the opposite feeling about it; but I think comments like the above do not add to the discussion and clearly should be placed in the Book as a Whole section where I will move the comment and all that follow. It is almost like bursting everybody's balloon who is reading it now. However, in the Book as a Whole section; everybody's opinions and comments are welcomed and encouraged no matter if they liked the book or not. On that thread which is a spoiler thread anything can be discussed about the book and the whys and the why nots. Here you are placing this comment in the Chapter 1 and Chapter 2 thread which is very unfair to the assisting moderator.

Additionally, I tried to discover if you had read the book in the past and you do not have any currently reading books listed (0); nor do you have the book listed in your read column or your to be read column.

Clearly, these kind of comments - (off the cuff comments) - with no back up comments - either pro or con - are not fair evaluations of the book - one way or the other and just are meant to provoke the membership to respond to you which of course we have done.

Comments like the above here will always be moved to the spoiler thread and the Book as a Whole section. There folks can comment to their heart's content.

Spent my recent vacation on the beach reading and finishing the Clinton book...this is my first post in the club..I'm not sure if I should be trying to digest the incremental chapter posts and comment or simply to voice my thoughts, unaided by earlier posts, for like readers who have already completed the entire text...Anyway, disclaimers aside, some general impressions...While many of the chapters in Clinton's political life call for more depth than what is offered here, I think Clinton made the right choice to tell his story with a chronological, straight-line sequencing of the periods in his life. At times, the torrent of events and its players wearies and the narrative feels like a succession of diary entries, merely archival rather than reflective. Still, the approach is conducive to his need to acknowledge and honor, however briefly and within the flow of the narrative, the wide array of people that shaped his thoughts and behavior at each stage of his development. And, I believe it's fair to say people matter to Clinton, not as a path to power or an opportunity for a 'I feel your pain' sound-byte. With his conversational informal style, we obtain a good sense of the old-school, pragmatic politician who understands the importance of listening well, a good story, an apt reference and the ability to learn from his political setbacks like the license fee debacle during his first term as the governor of Arkansas. The early chapters covering the boyhood 'secrets' and dealing with his step-father's alcoholism are seminal (oops, bad choice of words there); though he does not exactly say it, it's clear that Clinton believes the cloistering of his 'secrets' figure in his emotional weakness that much later lead to the Lewinsky scandal and subsequent betrayal of his family, friends and allies. Sections covering Clinton's interactions globally -- particularly the Palestine negotiations -- simply astound. I had forgotten or mis-remembered much of Clinton's internationalism, which conveys the depth and range of his involvement in all the nineties hot spots. Clearly, he made friends globally -- Mendela, Blair, Kohl, among others, often at difficult times. The account of the Barack and Arafat negotiations in late 2000 truly indicates that the difference between momentous success and failure can sometimes rest on intangibles -- Clinton's thoughts that Arafat hesitated in accepting the agreement may have been due to an inability by Arafat to see himself transformed from 'revolutionary to statesman' seem spot-on. On the domestic side, the author does a disservice by providing only light coverage of the struggle for health-care reform, still a major hot-botton issue at the time the book was first published.I also would have liked to have heard more about the roll-back of Glass Steagal and Clinton's thinking on free-trade. Further, I had difficulty sorting out the substance and outcome of the domestic policy initiatives, as clearly some proposals were never enacted. 'Saving Social Security', I gather, was the retiring of some federal obligations to the Social Security Trust Fund via second-term budget surpluses, but, unless I missed something, the book does not clarify how much was exactly 'saved'. These are mere incidentals, however, to central drama of the Clinton Presidency -- his career-long policy and political battles with the Republicans and the right. As self-serving as some of these pages may read to conservatives, it's difficult for me to find fault, on the main tenets or the President's veracity, with his rendering of the budget battles during the 1990s. Not only is the proof in the pudding -- balanced budgets and strong growth at the end of the second term achieved via a mix of spending cuts and targeted tax increases (repeat: targeted tax increases) -- but there's also the fact that so many passages can serve as talking points in today's pitched battles on the budget, taxes and job creation. Different scale, different players, similar themes: ..."The Republicans said my economic plan (Budget Reconciliation Act, 1993) would cause the sky to fall in, calling it a 'job killer' and a 'one-way ticket to recession'. They were wrong... The American people had been told that their government was a gluttonous leviathon, swallowing thier hard-earned dollars...then the same politicians who told them that and served up the tax cuts to starve the evil beast, turned right around and spend...leaving the false impression that voters could have programs they didn't pay for and the only reason we had big deficits was wasteful spending on foreign aid, welfare and other programs for poor people". (Sound familiar? As Clinton would say, that dog won't hunt anymore, but, judging by the sound-bytes I'm hearing daily now, damned if it's not still out there in the woods today, baying at the moon.)

Hi Frank H.

If this is your first post, please introduce yourself so we can say hello:
http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/9...

Thank you for the very nice overview. I think a lot of what you say is right on target.

I was a little disappointed about the lack of health plan coverage, too. I have to say the last third of the book, he seems to throw a lot out at us, like he has a check-list. I'd rather he be more selective, giving more time for reflection.

Feel free to post on the individual chapters if you like.

FrankH wrote: "Spent my recent vacation on the beach reading and finishing the Clinton book...this is my first post in the club..I'm not sure if I should be trying to digest the incremental chapter posts and comm..."

Excellent post Frank and please make sure to introduce yourself on the Introduction thread as Bryan has suggested. I too am enjoying the book tremendously and feel that the book was a little too compact in the second half with so much thrown in. I do like the chronological approach that he took and also feel that this is an extremely comprehensive autobiography - probably more comprehensive than any other former president has written (I think that Grant undertook a very comprehensive undertaking but I can't think of many others.)

I have to agree, Bentley. I found the last part of the book had too much information thrown at you. I can see why another round of editing would be helpful, trim it down a bit.

Yes, I think he was too conversational in the first half which I liked by the way; but then had too much chronological time to cover in the second half. I am not sure if he really could have trimmed it down a bit but editing might have made it a bit smoother. There were actually multiple books combined into one autobiography (when you think about it Whitewater and the Ken Starr witch hunt could have been its own separate long book) and his Early Life could have been like Winston Churchill's account of My Early Life.

Winston S. Churchill

I am right on the same page with you Bentley. I think he would have done better doing two books. Another recent example:

&
No Higher Honor both by Condoleezza Rice

The second covers her Washington years with President GW Bush and will be out in November.

I did not know about the first book either. Thanks Bryan.

Very welcome; I enjoyed the book.

Condoleezza Rice

I agree with remarks that the last third of the book seem compressed. The thought here is that Clinton could have been feeling the pressure from the publisher to meet a delivery date and was rushing...Or that, by his second term, he had reached a point in his life and presidency in which neither the casual, detailed youngish style in the early chapters nor something more personal/confessional seemed appropriate to him. What comes through in the coverage of Whitewater and the impeachment hearing is this bruised, moderately embittered but unbowed quality that is understandable but not entirely flattering. I would like to see another Clinton book -- this time anchored in policy and history -- but, with his other humanitarian pursuits, he simply may not be interested.

Who knows FrankH, he might in time; I think right now he has been occupied like you said with humanitarian pursuits, his daughter's wedding, his health even. Maybe the right offer to do such a book has not presented itself. He did seem to be saying between the lines - why me? But then it is difficult telling that story and coming out smelling like a rose.

Thanks, FrankH. Yeah, I think he still feels the sting from Whitewater and you can hear it from his words.

I wouldn't be surprised if he writes another one some day. From what I understand, you can't get the man to stand still, though.

Well, here we are everyone. The last week. But for those of you who are still reading, please continue and post. I look forward to your comments.

Overall, I found it a good book. I sense Clinton as a human being: not perfect, worked hard on his vision for America.

One thing I did want to mention, and I believe I said it before: he covered a lot on trying to get Bin Laden and terrorism. I keep wondering if he did this to say, "yes I did something." The book was written after 9/11. It is not look down on what he tried to do. He didn't ignore the problem, but he lived in a dysfunctional national security world.

Very true Bryan. I loved the book even better the second time aroumd; great job by the way.

Bentley wrote: "Very true Bryan. I loved the book even better the second time aroumd; great job by the way."

Thanks, Bentley. Kudos to you for reading it twice.

We brought up the idea if Clinton would write another book and he has:

Bill Clinton

It seems more forwarding looking, but he probably looks back on his own past economic policies.

Interesting. The man never stops.

Brian, I need some information from you right away; please check your PMs. Thanks.