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Hello Everyone,

This is the Week Eight thread for the next Presidential Series selection (My Life).

For those of you still acquiring the book, be advised that some folks have run into the problem of the book being now divided into two volumes. We will be reading and discussing the entire work so you will need to get both volumes (Volume I and Volume II). For those of you like myself who have the original hardcopy, that will not be necessary because the hardcopy was just one big book.

The week's reading assignment is:

Week Eight - August 1st - August 7th -> Chapters TWENTY ONE, TWENTY TWO, and TWENTY THREE p. 260 - 330


We will open up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers. We will also open up supplemental threads as we did for other spotlighted books.

This book was kicked off on June 13th. We look forward to your participation. Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Borders and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, or on your Kindle.

Since we just started this book on June 13th, there is still time remaining to obtain the book or both volumes and get started.

There is no rush and we are thrilled to have you join us. It is never too late to begin reading this selection and/or to post.

Bryan Craig will be your moderator for this selection as he is our lead for all Presidential selections. We hope you enjoy Week Eight of this discussion.

Welcome,

~Bryan

TO ALWAYS SEE ALL WEEKS' THREADS SELECT VIEW ALL

Bill Clinton

Chapter 21 opens with Clinton becoming governor of Arkansas. His inaugural address was about pride and hope, but it would be a tough term (2 years). One of his biggest issues was education where he wanted to raise standards, spend more money, and have mandatory student testing. He also wanted to improve and build more roads in the state. To do this, he raised the car tag fee based on the weight of the car, and it proved to be a big mistake, pretty much losing the rural vote and eroding many other voter's confidence. He also had trouble when he brought in experts from outside the state to run some state agencies and tried to open clinics staffed by nurse practitioners and mid-wives, upsetting the doctors. Clinton also tried to develop energy conservation and keep the energy rates low, and reforming welfare by linking welfare to work. The happiest day was the birth of his daughter, Chelsea.

A huge issue was the Cuban refugees. President Carter did not screen any of the Cuban refugees coming into the U.S. by boat and some of them were sent to Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Fort Chaffee in Arkansas. The locals did not like this and armed themselves for protection. Some of the refugees escaped. Carter also moved more Cubans to Ft. Chaffee going against his word to Clinton. In 1980, Clinton ran against Frank White and White effectively defeated Clinton with the slogan: "Cubans and Car Tags."

In Chapter 22, we see Clinton try for the governorship again. He was getting some encouragement from old supporters to run and he felt he had to attack the Republicans hard when they run attack ads. During the campaign, he ran an ad admitting his mistakes in the first term. Hillary even changed her last name to Clinton. Clinton uses ads more effectively and wins another term.

The last chapter covers his 1982 and 1984 terms as governor. He focused on jobs, modernizing the economy, and schools. He also learned to talk with legislators and stay in the state more often. He helped work out a new school funding plan when the state supreme court declared it unconstitutional. He went to the 1984 Democratic National Convention where Walter Mondale and Geraldine Ferraro went up against Reagan and lost, but he won re-election. In 1986, he was chairman of the Governor's Association and continued to work to modernize the economy, bring health care to high risk people, and welfare reform with literacy, job training, and get people jobs.

On a personal note, his half-brother, Roger, was caught selling cocaine and got 14 months in jail.

Rough first term, wouldn't you all agree? I found one quote interesting:

"But if I hadn't been defeated, I probably never would have become president. It was a near-death experience, but an invaluable one, forcing me to be ore sensitive to the political problems inherent in progressive politics: the system can absorb only so much change at once; no one can beat all the entrenched interests at the same time; and if people think you've stopped listening, you're sunk." (p. 287)

How do you think he should have handled some things to be in a better position to be re-elected?

I thought it was also interesting that the Democratic Party was split over healthcare in 1980. Kennedy wanted full coverage, while others piecemeal. Kennedy was very upset over Carter's refusal to move forward on healthcare and that helped him decide to fight him for the 1980 nomination.

If you want to read more about the Cuban refugee problem, I posted something on the Glossary:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/5...

Some information on Frank White, Clinton's opponent in 1980:

Frank Durward White was best recognized as the little-known Republican candidate who defeated Bill Clinton in 1980 after Clinton had served only one term as governor. White himself was limited to one term when Clinton reclaimed the office of governor in 1982. Though his tenure in office was marked mostly by his support of teaching “creation science� in schools, White later became the grand old father of the Grand Old Party (GOP), known for his expansive sense of humor and his ability to relate to people of all political leanings.

Born on June 4, 1933, in Texarkana, Texas, to Durward Frank Kyle and Ida Bottoms Clark Kyle, White was given the name Durward Frank Kyle Jr. His father died when he was seven, and his mother later married Loftin E. White of Dallas, Texas. After his stepfather adopted him, White legally changed his name to Frank Durward White.

White attended Highland Park High School in Dallas until his stepfather died in 1950 and his mother moved back to Texarkana. He then enrolled in New Mexico Military Institute in Roswell, New Mexico. After a brief time at Texas A&M University, he accepted an appointment to the U.S. Naval Academy. He graduated in 1956, ranked 273 in a class of 681. His favorite subject was Spanish, but he earned the obligatory engineering degree.

White was commissioned in the U.S. Air Force, where he served as a pilot. He was discharged in 1961 with the rank of captain. He then married Mary Blue Hollenberg of Little Rock (Pulaski County). The Whites settled in Little Rock, where the Hollenberg family was well known in the business and cultural community. White took a job at Merrill-Lynch & Co., where his gregarious personality helped him excel. In 1973, at the urging of prominent banker Bill Bowen, White joined the management of Commercial National Bank. Bowen, a Democrat who would later oppose White politically, was White’s Sunday school teacher. Despite their political differences, White and Bowen had a lasting business relationship.

White threw himself into Little Rock’s business and social life. He served as president of the Little Rock Jaycees in 1965�1966. He was active in Campus Crusade for Christ and served on the board of Arkansas Children’s Hospital. Though he was outwardly secular, religion was important to White. He grew up in the Baptist church and was baptized as a youth in the Beech Street Baptist Church in Texarkana (Miller County), later pastored by Reverend Mike Huckabee, who also became a Republican governor of Arkansas. White and his first wife divorced in 1973, and he married Gay Daniels, a devout Christian, in 1975. They had no children, but they gained custody of White’s three children from his first marriage.

The Whites were members of First Methodist Church, a historic and progressive congregation in downtown Little Rock. The increasingly liberal theology of the Methodist church did not suit White, and, in 1977, the Whites and a few other couples established Fellowship Bible Church, a conservative congregation which adhered to the inerrancy of scripture. It quickly grew in size and political influence. White’s religious beliefs later profoundly influenced his tenure as governor.

White’s first foray into state government was as a member of popular Democratic governor David Pryor’s cabinet. In 1975, White was named director of the Arkansas Industrial Development Commission (now the Arkansas Economic Development Commission). It was a perfect post for White, mixing his two loves: politics and business. But White’s tenure came during a time of economic retrenchment, and his directorship left a mixed legacy.

After two years at the commission, White left state government in 1977 to become president of Capital Savings and Loan Co. in Little Rock. His interest in politics was growing, and in 1980, he filed as a Republican to run against Governor Clinton, who was seeking a second term. It was assumed that Clinton would win handily, because his only Democratic opponent was an eccentric turkey farmer named Monroe Schwartzlose—and White was hardly known outside Little Rock business circles.

But the 1980 election did not go according to script. First, Schwartzlose won a respectable thirty-one percent in the Democratic primary, which should have served as a wake-up call for Clinton. Then White began airing hard-hitting television advertisements that attacked Clinton on two disparate but volatile issues—car tags and Cubans. Clinton had raised the automobile license fees to fund highway construction. The Cuban issue arose when the federal government sent several thousand Cuban refugees to a resettlement center at Fort Chaffee near Fort Smith (Sebastian County). The resulting discord at Fort Chaffee, White claimed, was due to Clinton’s failure to stand up to President Jimmy Carter, an unpopular Democrat.

White beat Clinton 435,684 to 403,242. White got off to a rough start as governor by innocently proclaiming that his election was “a victory for the Lord,� a statement that drew a chorus of criticism. Having not been considered a serious candidate until the end of the campaign, White entered office without a detailed legislative program. No sooner was he sworn in than he had to begin dealing with a looming revenue shortfall of $80 million. White drew on the expertise of two of the handful of Republicans in the legislature, Representatives Carolyn Pollan of Fort Smith and Preston Bynum of Siloam Springs (Benton County). White was philosophically opposed to raising taxes, so he had little in the way of fiscal alternatives other than cutting budgets. The situation was made worse by the hard economic times and by the severe Federal retrenchment inaugurated by newly elected President Ronald Reagan. White closed the state’s office in Washington DC, saving $600,000. He also cut the governor’s staff by twenty-five percent.

White did locate enough funding to start a vocational-technical education division in the Department of Education and increase funding for the Department of Correction. He also reformed the state’s purchasing system and worked tirelessly in pursuit of capital investment in the state—with some success when $530.8 million was reported.

Just as “Cubans and car tags� were the defining issues of the first Clinton administration, “creation science� and utility regulation were the great debates of White’s administration. Act 590 of 1981 required schools to give “balanced treatment� to “creation science� and “evolution science.� Though the bill did not originate within the administration, White promised to sign it if it fared well in the legislature. When it passed handily in both houses, White signed the bill—without reading it, as he admitted later. The ensuing firestorm of criticism grew in intensity when Democratic state Senator James L. Holsted of North Little Rock (Pulaski County) admitted that he did not consult with the Department of Education or the attorney general before introducing his bill. Holsted also admitted that “we legislators have prejudices and beliefs that affect what legislation we introduce.� White defended his support of the legislation, though he noted that no governor can read every bill he signs. Arkansas Gazette cartoonist George Fisher forever after drew White holding a half-eaten banana. The court case challenging the law, McLean v. Arkansas Board of Education, brought national attention to the state, which lost the case and did not appeal.

Another issue that left a lasting imprint on the White administration involved charges that he was beholden to the large utility companies. On inauguration day, White fired the top three leaders in the Department of Energy; he later abolished the department.

During White’s reelection campaign, rumors spread that he had given power company leaders a list of prospective appointees to the Public Service Commission, which had regulatory authority over all utility companies. Detractors charged that White had given the power companies veto power over potential nominees, a charge the governor denied vigorously. White tried to shore up his standing as a utility regulator by calling a special legislative session to consider utility regulatory reform. Though his detractors charged that his efforts were half-hearted, he secured passage of laws to prohibit “pancaking,� a practice that allowed additional rate increase requests while earlier requests were pending.
(Source: )

Many of the facts in this chapter I was not aware of; so it was interesting reading. It appears that Teddy carried forth his brother's legacy and in the final analysis made it his own.

Bentley wrote: "Many of the facts in this chapter I was not aware of; so it was interesting reading. It appears that Teddy carried forth his brother's legacy and in the final analysis made it his own."

This is so true, Bentley. One of Teddy's biggest causes was health care and he fought for it literally to the end of his life. The year he was dying he was working from home trying to get Obama's healthcare plan formed. And back to 1980, I'm sure it was a huge disappointment for Kennedy and probably Clinton that the Democratic Party could not be unified under a health care program.

Just an aside: I walked down one of our hallways at work and saw a picture of Clinton and Carter at a rally dated October 1980. It could have been the timing, but Clinton does not look all that happy. If he felt that way, this book shows us why...I can't find it on the Internet, though. I wish I could.

Would love to see the photo; although in recent interviews he has been very gracious to Carter. But Carter does have a way of getting himself into trouble along the way with those who oppose him but also with those folks who should be on the same page. He does stand up for what he believes in; and that has always been the bone of contention with many. He always seems to be swimming upstream.

Bentley wrote: "Would love to see the photo; although in recent interviews he has been very gracious to Carter. But Carter does have a way of getting himself into trouble along the way with those who oppose him ..."

It is a AP photo used with permission, but I will search again.

You bring up some interesting points. I believe Carter and Clinton "made up" while Clinton was president. But from these pages, you can tell Clinton felt betrayed over the Cuba issue. I don't blame him for it. I'd be upset that a president would send more refugees to my state to help garner votes in the other two states. I think it just shows Carter's desperation in the 1980 election. I think it also shows how much he lost support in his own party by 1980.

For sure; Clinton had major issues with this and I agree with him being upset.

Some folks will just dig themselves deeper when they are losing power and control. (Carter)

Clinton seemed to be an early supporter of mandatory testing for teachers and students. I know Bush did similar things in Texas in the 1990s and I'm sure they were not alone.

Why do you think Clinton came to this policy answer? If you lived in Arkansas at this time, would you support him or not on this?

I just finished chapter 22 this morning and I closed the book rather irritated. I am stumped at the pettiness of some of the voters and the line of reasoning. So someone is unfit for office because the spouse does not give up her last name .... according to what logic? There is no slippery slope or any other danger waiting around the corner. Clinton states that he lost the election because of his mistakes, I say he came away a winner (of conscience) because 'pleasing others' was not what drove his decision-making.

Verena wrote: "I just finished chapter 22 this morning and I closed the book rather irritated. I am stumped at the pettiness of some of the voters and the line of reasoning. So someone is unfit for office because..."

Politics is a strange tight-rope, isn't it? Here is what Hillary has to say on this: "Brides who kept their maiden names were becoming more common in some places in the mid-1970s, but they were still rare in most of the country. And that included Arkansas... I kept my name after Bill was elected to state office partly because I thought it would help avoid the appearance of conflict of interest...our two names was apparently a hot subject of conversation around the state. People in Arkansas reacted to me much as my mother-in-law had when she first met me: I was an oddity because of my dress, my Northern ways and the use of my maiden name." (p. 92)

Hillary Rodham Clinton

I did like the fact Clinton admitted his mistakes, hard to see that today with our politicians.

Good posts Verena and Bryan with so many viewpoints presented. A lot to think about - it was a learning experience for all involved. Including Clinton's own mother.

It just shows that our country does not have a national perspective on cultural attitudes, mores, speech, customs, dress or pretty much anything; we are country of differences which came together for common interests. Bill Clinton by moving away from Arkansas and studying in DC, England and the Northeast had broadened his horizons and he had moved back home where everybody had remained the same in his absence. Never the twain shall meet.

I do think Clinton leaving the state caused some significant growth, and he still loved his home state.

What do you think it says about Clinton to decide to return home?

I think it says that his roots were too deep to ignore and it was always his dream to be a big fish in a little pond. I often wonder how he transcended local and state politics and decided to go after the really big fish. Also, I think he always thought that he would be an Arkansas boy for the rest of his life; but I think in part he has now grown beyond that; placing his Presidential library in the state does still show his great fondness and love for his past. And his mother and most of his closest family ties are for the most part gone now.

Well said, Bentley. I think he had deep roots in Arkansas and missed home, and probably felt he wanted to give back to the state.

Regarding the transition, I think there is a clue there in Boys Nation, he wanted to go after the Senate, not governor job. I think he already had leaning toward Washington all along. Also, by the time he was governor, I think he felt he really wanted to make a bigger impact on changing the course of the U.S., and the only way to do that is be president.

I think what you say is true Bryan; when he met Kennedy he already wanted to be President and get there though the Senate. I agree that the governor's job was not in his cards at the time.

I have to say that I admire Hillary even more for giving up her dreams to foster his; that says a lot about how deeply she felt about him.

I often wonder about the deep secrets that he says he has had in life and what those were all about. I wonder if that factored in to his behavior later on.

It sounds like he had issues with his lack of ability in sports and his gawkiness, etc. Maybe when he lost that awkwardness and dorkiness; it went to his head. Hard to tell.

I do think that Clinton always has had an altruistic and philanthropic side to his nature and that has always shone through. I think he found a like minded individual in Hillary and I think in some ways the person he found was as strong if not stronger in her own way than his mother. And in every way she was his intellectual equal and as many folks have reported superior in terms of intellect.
Their marriage has always been strong in terms of their thinking and intellectual pursuits and their family.

Yeah, their marriage has survived a lot of political battles and that says a lot. I am also intrigued about his secrets; we will probably never know about them, though. Part of you wishes you could, though, just to figure out what makes him tick: a biographer's dream, I know, lol.

Two issues Gov. Clinton was tackling I will mention again because they will play a role in the future:

1. Modernize the economy. Bring in high technology firms.
2. Welfare reform. This is a pretty big deal. We move from the usual Democratic public face of welfare as handing out money to what the governor is working on: literacy, job training, and helping the unemployed find a job.

Bryan wrote: "Yeah, their marriage has survived a lot of political battles and that says a lot. I am also intrigued about his secrets; we will probably never know about them, though. Part of you wishes you cou..."


I had to wonder when he was discussing his giving free legal advice. Obviously there are things that he will take to his grave.

Bryan wrote: "Two issues Gov. Clinton was tackling I will mention again because they will play a role in the future:

1. Modernize the economy. Bring in high technology firms.
2. Welfare reform. This is a pr..."

Yes, he took those big ideas to a national level. Good point.

These three chapters were, if heavy with details, very interesting and it was a very good presentation to better understand politics, Clinton and maybe government.

First there is the illustration of the teacher’s union (sorry to offend any educational professionals) and it is a story that continues today � this is so much my personal view � that educators want to be treated as, paid as, respected as professionals but do not within their ranks impose upon their colleagues the need/obligation to succeed in educating the children � to do their jobs. I never see teachers fighting for better teaching conditions but only to get and hold benefits. Clinton appropriately as he could it seems tried to deal with this and succeeded to some extent.

And this was just part of the illustration of the range of responsibilities and obligations he faced in that executive role. This can make me understand how he was able to deal with the presidency. (And maybe see how a man with limited legislative experience and no executive or management experience, our current president (who is also young), can be really not prepared or able to do the job). FDR was a governor, as was Reagan, and the second Bush, Eisenhower certainly had executive/management experience and these folks, whether you liked their policies or not seemed to have better control. An ex-governor exception may have been Jimmy Carter � not sure my view of his presidency was so slanted by the Iranian hostage crisis.

I also would note that I have been “aware� of Clinton since the early 80s when he was several times in Europe looking for industry for Arkansas. The outfit I worked for at the time, Arbed a Luxembourg steel producer, built a plant in Pine Bluff � deciding over North Carolina and another state � impart due to wooing directly by Bill Clinton. He also got one of our Belgium competitors, Baekaert, to build a plant there so the office they set up in Brussels was a real success.
One other comment is that he mentions Nucor and for those of you who are curious to understand, from a layman’s level, modern steel making you might want to read American Steel.

Richard Preston



It deals mostly with the building of the Crawfordsville, Indiana plant, the first mini-mill direct to flat rolled casting of carbon steel done in the world by Nucor. It mentions also Iverson’s direction of the company. Out of print now and hard to find you might be able to get it through your library. It is available used from Amazon but expensive.

Interesting, Vince. I do agree that being a governor gives you some advantages, a more diverse portfolio. Nowadays, more governors are involved in foreign affair issues, maybe less on arms control, say than international economics, but will meet leaders etc.

Do you think Clinton did a wise thing wooing steel companies to Arkansas?

Bryan wrote: "Interesting, Vince. I do agree that being a governor gives you some advantages, a more diverse portfolio. Nowadays, more governors are involved in foreign affair issues, maybe less on arms control..."

I assume that governors in defense industry oriented states are somewhat arms oriented too.

Anyway I think that Clinton did a good thing in getting the steel industry to Arkansas - at least those I know of. The Nucor plant is a mini-mill - melting primary from available scrap that is procured as near as possible to the plant. So this reduces transport of scrap from within the state to outside - on the other hand it probaly brings in scrap from other states too but these are well paying jobs generally (Nucor yes - they try to avoid unionization - another issue but pays are good) and they are pretty dependable I think in meeting EPD standards - both Federal and state.
For the Luxembourg owned plant although it was a greenfield plant which was downstream processing - making steelcord for tires from wire rods - not a melting plant or a hot rolling plant - there was strict conforance with enviromental controls and no real unique pollution factors where the ways of controlling were not well known and the Luxembourgers put in, to my knowlegde, as good protection as used in Luxembourg so I think it was a plus plus.
The BElgiums also had a downstream wire products plant there so again no melting and I am pretty sure no hot rolling and the worst factor there probably was the pickling and maybe from the galvanizing lines but no unique problems.

So I think he was wise to do it especially, these three at least, were well capitalized responsible firms. All were/are (Arbed has since been acquired by Arcelor Mittal) public companies with scrutiny possible from SEC filings etc.

PS - one more thing on the steel plants - the Nucor and Arbed plants are/were "high tech" for their industries - not all "high tech" is on micro-chips.

Just a poor industrialist comment.

No a good distinction and one that should be made. Thank you Vince.

Thanks for your post, Vince.

Verena wrote: "I just finished chapter 22 this morning and I closed the book rather irritated. I am stumped at the pettiness of some of the voters and the line of reasoning. So someone is unfit for office because..."

WOOT! Love this comment Verena!

Bryan wrote: "Bentley wrote: "Would love to see the photo; although in recent interviews he has been very gracious to Carter. But Carter does have a way of getting himself into trouble along the way with those..."

I've heard Carter could be rather blunt, to the point of rudeness. I think it was in this book that I read that.

Madeleine Albright

Has anyone read any good biographies of Carter? I think he'd be fascinating. I've always admired his work with Habitat for Humanity. I love someone who puts his money (and time) where his mouth is.

Bryan wrote: "Verena wrote: "I just finished chapter 22 this morning and I closed the book rather irritated. I am stumped at the pettiness of some of the voters and the line of reasoning. So someone is unfit for..."

I like that too - very refreshing to see someone admit mistakes or take responsibility for anything.

Bentley wrote: "I think what you say is true Bryan; when he met Kennedy he already wanted to be President and get there though the Senate. I agree that the governor's job was not in his cards at the time.

I ha..."

Great points, all.

Bryan wrote: "Yeah, their marriage has survived a lot of political battles and that says a lot. I am also intrigued about his secrets; we will probably never know about them, though. Part of you wishes you cou..."

Exactly!!! I am growing more curious from this reading, dying to read other books about him now, particularly the one this book beat in our Clinton poll.

Michael Takiff

Bryan wrote: "Two issues Gov. Clinton was tackling I will mention again because they will play a role in the future:

1. Modernize the economy. Bring in high technology firms.
2. Welfare reform. This is a pr..."

Clinton IMO was at his best when dealing with the economy. Again, so many of his views are centrist, something we can all agree on, which seems sadly lacking in today's political environment.

From Chapter 21, Chelsea is born:

"I talked to her and sang to her. I never wanted that night to end. At last I was a father."

Made me cry. I see in Clinton and in Obama the same delight when it comes to their kids.

Chapter 22, the campaign against Frank White at the McDonnell Douglas plant:

"When I opened the door to the plant, I was almost knocked over by the loud sound of Willie Nelson singing one of my favorite songs, Steve Goodman's "City of New Orleans." I walked in to the opening line of the chorus: "Good morning, America, how are you? Don't you know me, I'm your native son." The workers cheered. All of them but one were wearing my campaign buttons. I made my way down each aisle, shaking hands to the music and fighting back the tears."

Me too. I am such a sap! I can just see this song going right to Clinton's heart.

Chapter 23, very beginning. Sometimes I wish Clinton were still in office, so he could focus the attention on the two biggies again:

"Another consequence of the poor economy was a falloff in state revenues, leaving too little money for education and other essential services. It was clear to me that, if we were going to get out of this fix, I had to focus the state's attention, and mine, on education and employment."

I know we are facing a budget crisis, but cuts to education are so foolish. These dollars IMO are the wisest dollars any government can spend. Educate the people, for goodness sake! And watch so many other problems recede. I received a Pell grant one semester in community college, then student loans. Now I own a business, I employ people (seasonally, but still!), I pay taxes. Money well spent.

Laura wrote: "Bryan wrote: "Bentley wrote: "Would love to see the photo; although in recent interviews he has been very gracious to Carter. But Carter does have a way of getting himself into trouble along the ..."

I haven't as yet. I think at times that he has been misunderstood.

Laura wrote: "From Chapter 21, Chelsea is born:

"I talked to her and sang to her. I never wanted that night to end. At last I was a father."

Made me cry. I see in Clinton and in Obama the same delight when ..."

Yes, I think that Clinton would consider that one of the best days of his life. I think that not having a ready father made them want to become the best that they could be.

Laura wrote: "Chapter 22, the campaign against Frank White at the McDonnell Douglas plant:

"When I opened the door to the plant, I was almost knocked over by the loud sound of Willie Nelson singing one of my fa..."

Yes that is a great image.

Laura wrote: "Chapter 23, very beginning. Sometimes I wish Clinton were still in office, so he could focus the attention on the two biggies again:

"Another consequence of the poor economy was a falloff in stat..."

A centrist is able to bridge the gap easier than anybody from the far right or left.

Laura wrote: "Chapter 23, very beginning. Sometimes I wish Clinton were still in office, so he could focus the attention on the two biggies again:

"Another consequence of the poor economy was a falloff in stat..."

But controlling spending seems not to be under control - look at the cheating by Atlanta teachers and principles to pass standards (which also gets them more money - is that Grand Larceny a felony?) - Look at Michelle Rhee and think about how the money is spent - spending money well is the solution and if one is not spending well what one is spending more immediately will not help - check out the Joel Klein article in the Atlantic



Sorry to get so far off topic.

Vince you are right and we can take this conversation to the Glossary thread of this book or the OFF TOPIC conversation thread. You raise valid points; look at the arsenal and the establishment which promotes military spending and contracts. The situation enjoys a broad spectrum of abuse.

Laura wrote: "Has anyone read any good biographies of Carter? I think he'd be fascinating. I've always admired his work with Habitat for Humanity. I love someone who puts his money (and time) where his mouth is..."

Laura: check out our Carter thread and see if anything looks good:
http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/2...

Thanks Bryan, I will!

Wow there is a lot in these chapters, so much sets the stage I think for what became growing passions of his presidency. It is telling that he seems to zero in on the stories of people he meets as a way to use, or perhaps substantiate, his resolve on a particular issue. These have to be short encounters, but he seems to truly listen and quickly absorb what people are telling him. He clearly loved his home state, and the platform of Governor was perfect for him. Early in his life you never hear him reject anything specifically about living in Arkansas, it was always a people issue that would have made life better, meaning if only his father didn't drink, if only his mother could have a better life, never anything he blamed on where they were. Maybe because he had a difficult childhood he was more in tune to other people's struggles in life, and understood that providing the means for people to make their own lives better was his way of doing for others what he did not have. He really seems to capture the essence of stories he hears from other people.

I loved his work on welfare reform and his comment at the end of the chapter "When I tackled welfare reform as President, I was always somewhat amused to hear some members of the press characterize it as a Republican issue, as if valuing work was something only conservatives did. By 1996, when Congress passed a bill I could sign, I had been working on welfare reform for more than fifteen years. But I didn't consider it a Deomcratic issue. Or even a governer's issue. Welfare reform awas about Lillie Hardin and her boy."

well said Alisa. I believe he loved people and his home state too.