Baker Street Irregulars discussion
Holmes & Watson in Current Media
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CBS to produce modernized Holmes series?
Oh I've heard about this too...I'm worried, I must admit , yet any new Sherlock Holmes related thing makes me happy...I'm so very glad that a boom of Holmesian mania started again these years...
Thanks for sharing the link Steve. I hadn't heard about this until now but my fear isn't that it will be bad but rather that it will be really amazing but then studio will cancel it early anyway. It seems that all of the shows I like always get canceled. *Sigh*
OOOOooooOO! I so hope it will be decent. Thank you for sharing that!
I've also heard about Russia having a go at another Sherlock Holmes story, doubt it will be contemporary... even so...more and more Sherlock Holmes. The fandom will be happy.
So... Benedict Cumberbatch's Frankenstein co-star will play Sherlock in this show. Hmmm... very interesting. Could it actually be decent? Or is this more proof that it will definitely suck? Guess it depends on your opinion of Jonny Lee Miller. As usual the are quite amusing. "This is going to be an absolute abomination." "Its a betrayal of friendship." "I always wondered who the idiot would be that signed up for this role." Harsh!
I have not read many good reviews and it hasn't even aired yet, however, I have heard it will be a modernized version but the BBC is already preping for law suits if Elementary has the use of modern technology and a few other reasons. ABC news had this post a while ago and I can't find the link again to post it. I will give this show a shot just because it is another Holmes television show. It might be a satisfactory filler while I wait for the amazing Sherlock to come back to the states with new episodes once it begins.
Ha, I agree that most discussions I've seen want to damn the show before they've even seen it, which is unfair. I am actually looking forward to it! If it sucks, eh. Sherlock's been around for over 100 years; I'm sure he'll be able to survive an awful show. But I don't mind remakes. And in my mind the canon is well established and unchangeable. I approach all works that aren't Watson's writings as pastiches. It makes it easier to remind myself that if something's bad, oh well, at least it's not canon.
Eh. I don't think it'll be as good as Sherlock.
Libby wrote: "Eh. I don't think it'll be as good as Sherlock."I don't think it will be either, but... what if it is? :0
For me, the primary brilliance of BBC Sherlock is how they honor the canon: from subtle plots points (with a modern twist) to outright word-for-word lines lifted from the canon. It's obvious that Moffat & Gatiss know the stories inside and out. They make the extra effort to include these references to the canon and treat them with respect.I won't make up my mind until I see the CBS show, but in terms of weaving canonical elements into their storylines...I think they will have a tough time replicating the success that BBC Sherlock has had doing so.
The thought has struck me that perhaps it's not even right to compare it to BBC Sherlock at all. It will be hard to not do so, but maybe I should judge it on its own merits. I think that is easier said than done ;)
Ha! It looks like Lucy Liu will play Joan Watson! that mentions previous female incarnations of Watson, namely "They Might Be Giants" and CBS's (yes, CBS!) 1987 "The Return of Sherlock Holmes".
I think it's awesome. Female Watson! Hey, gender swapping worked on Battlestar Galactica.
A few articles on the choice of Lucy Liu to warm the blood. Righteous indignation! Ect. ect.
Yeah, I think it's all a bit silly but eh it passes the time at work. I had my boyfriend try to explain it to me but maybe I am just not that kind of nerd.
Joanna wrote: "Ha! It looks like Lucy Liu will play Joan Watson! Baker Street Blog had a great entry that mentions previous female incarnations of Watson, namely "They Might Be Giants" and CBS's (yes, CBS!) 198..."
Female...Watson? Oh how I can just feel the obvious waves of Watson/Sherlock heterosexual indication...
After reading the articles posted here, especially the Huff Post one I am likening the idea of this less and less. I will still give it a chance but I really don't like the idea of Holmes and Watson hooking up even if Watson is portrayed as a female. Luci Lui is a great actress but I feel this decision will be suicide for the show and it hasn't even aired yet. That however is just my opinion.
Has anyone ever read this imfamous Rex Stout speech? In it he proposes evidence that proves that Watson was actually a Woman the whole time.
He might not convince you that the Canon Watson was a woman but he has me thinking about the possabilities provided by this new series.
Thanks for posting the link, Joanna. I'm really trying to reserve judgment. I really am. And I know this is just a promo clip. However, there isn't the "wow" factor there for me yet. I will be sorely disappointed if they don't pay homage to the canon with all sorts of elements lifted from the stories and put into their series. Although unrealistic to think they could match the INCREDIBLE job that BBC Sherlock does in this area, I would at least hope there is something there for us Sherlockians. Otherwise, they've just taken the good Holmes name and reduced him to being just another detective.
I am in that minority who is not a fan of the BBC series. I don't know what to expect from this, but CBS has plugged it into a prime Thursday spot, behind their #1 new show, "Person of Interest" (a favorite of mine). I do wonder about a 10 PM slot. On last night's episode of POI, there was little snippet/preview of "Elementary".
Lucy Liu seems to be very wooden, and since when does Sherlock hate being right?? This trailer has put me off it even more.
I'm wary of this new edition that CBS is showing. To be honest, I hate the idea that Watson is a female. Just..no. I love the original show with Basil and Jeremy. BBC Sherlock is great, too. Elementary is just lacking that 'wow' factor. Sherlock just doesn't seem to be jerk enough.
I have to admit it looks terrible. But I also think BBC Sherlock is actually pretty terrible, too. Great set/costume design, decent cinematography, amazing Cumberbatch, but everything else I think is just awful. I consider myself a fan of the fan fiction of that show more than the show itself. Much better writing, in my opinion.
Really? I love the BBC Sherlock because, for me, they capture Holme's and Watson's personality correctly. They have stayed very true to the original stories, but it's just set in the modern day. And it's created by a couple of Holmesians so the nods to the original stories are everywhere, and the deductions are amazing! I didn't like the Warner Bros movie as much. I mean, yeah, sure, it's not bad, but it's not amazing either. Because it's set in Victorian London, I thin they had to try harder to capture the same spirit as the Arthur Conan Doyle did, but didn't quite reach it. And frankly, I found Irene Adler quite pathetic.
And as for this CBS's Elementary....well it hasn't even come out and I already am not wowed by it. And I'm not particularly thrilled to see another modern day Holmes, especially since a) It's American, b) to me, it seems they are copying the BBC and c) they have a female Watson.
I like the some pieces of BBC Sherlock. The biggest piece that I like is Benedict Cumberbatch as Holmes. He fits as a modern Sherlock, and I think Martin Freeman fits as his Watson. But, for me, they are not the Holmes and Watson that I see in the Canon. I can see how they can be for someone else though. I mean, House was the same sorta curmudgeony loner. I think Sherlockian fandom is currently leaning more towards Sherlock being a jerk than in previous decades. I loved A Study in Pink, which was truest to the original story. I think the other episodes say true with varying levels of success (I like Hounds of Baskerville, and the Bruce-Partington plan bit in Great Game) but I thought Scandal in Belgravia lost the plot after they were finished with the "blackmail royals with scandalous photos" bit. I can understand needing to fill out a short story to fit something movie length, but man. Sherlocked? Honestly? and that ending! groans. I think the whole show is kinda goofy honestly. Which isn't a bad thing; i like goofy! sometimes.
Elementary looks about like it might be worse though, this is true. Looks half-assed. I wonder if it will even finish out its first season and if anyone (even people working on the show) will care.
Hmm. I actually found the whole 'Sherlocked' thing very witty. It's so obvious now you think about it. I find the script amazing, as well as Benedict Cumberbatch and Martin Freeman.From the Elementary trailer, Johnny Lee Miller doesn't seem to have the right voice (as compared to Benedict Cumberbatch and Robert Downey Jr), and Lucy Liu seems very stiff and wooden. Not much emotion in her voice or in her expressions...
If any of you are going to comic con, there will be an Elementary panel on Thursday. Jonny Lee Miller and Lucy Liu will be there. Interesting...I'm not going. Damn comic con tickets were hard to get.
The good folks from Sherlockology ( ) posted the link below on twitter earlier today. It is a "non-review" (read the note at the beginning) of the CBS Elementary pilot. Although I agree it should rise or fall on it's own, it will be terribly difficult for me to not compare it to BBC Sherlock at some point.
Steve, thank you so much for linking to that! I am one of the people who are hoping Elementary will be good. I am actually not that big a fan of BBC Sherlock (though I drool over Benedict Cumberbatch), so I wonder if I would actually like this series better. As usual I think the best part are the comments. haha
I took my son to see The Amazing Spider-Man at the movies yesterday and was surprised to see an Elementary "behind-the-scenes" trailer. I'd really like to give it a chance. But what I absolutely LOVE about BBC Sherlock are all many nods it gives to the canon, from plot lines (major & minor) to phrases virtually lifted word from word from the original stories.
If Elementary doesn't have this, I think I will be disappointed...but then again, am I comparing it too much to BBC Sherlock? If it doesn't somehow acknowledge the canon, isn't it just another "brilliantly observant detective" drama with Sherlock Holmes in name only?
Here's yet another article on Elementary:I find myself more and more intrigued. I will definitely watch. How great would it be if we have another TV series outlet for our Sherlockian or Holmesian pursuits?
Perhaps we should sit back and enjoy this Holmes renaissance before the fickle winds of popular culture shrink back from our beloved consulting detective.
I just have this awful feeling that if they add a female Watson we'll have to deal with the typical American mystery drama television 'sexual tension' ala 'Bones' or 'X-Files' or Zeus-help-us...'House'. That said, the Law and Order shows keep it toned down, so maybe there's some hope.
Ron wrote: "I just have this awful feeling that if they add a female Watson we'll have to deal with the typical American mystery drama television 'sexual tension' ala 'Bones' or 'X-Files' or Zeus-help-us...'Ho..."I don't know if you saw articles coming from the ComicCon regarding Elementary, Ron, but they specifically addressed your concern:
And while Lucy Liu, who plays Watson, admitted "It gives [the relationship] a little bit of a tingle," Doherty suggested the sex of Holmes’s companion would not change the tone or the significance of their relationship.
“It really shouldn't make a difference; it's a challenge of the series to not turn it into a will-they-or-won't-they," said Doherty. "It's not about that, it's about honouring the source material and the bond."
It is the last sentence that I find the most reassuring.
Full article here:
Oh no, I didn't read that. I wonder how they'll handle their domestic situation?
Anything with Sherlock Holmes in it I am going to at least give a chance. I have seen a few trailers on youtube about it. I don't think there is any trouble of it coping "Sherlock." If anything, it looks more like House becomes a consulting detective.
Joanna wrote: "If any of you are going to comic con, there will be an Elementary panel on Thursday. Jonny Lee Miller and Lucy Liu will be there. Interesting...I'm not going. Damn comic con tickets were hard to..."
Two of my kids live in NYC and have tix - I'll have to alert them.
J. wrote: "Joanna wrote: "If any of you are going to comic con, there will be an Elementary panel on Thursday. Jonny Lee Miller and Lucy Liu will be there. Interesting...I'm not going. Damn comic con ticke..."
Ooops. Thought you meant the Oct/NYC comic con. Anyway, Elementary is filming today in Queens, but it's a studio set, so no chance to catch a glimpse of LL or JLM.
I will give this a watch for at least a few episodes, but I must admit I am already not liking the idea of this. Talking Holmes out of London and making Watson a female is really grating on my nerves. I am also not a big fan of Jonny Lee Miller.I do hope to be proven wrong and enjoy this, but my hopes are not high.
I'll reserve judgement until I see how they have handled the series. Laurie King, of course, in her Mary Russell series (twelve so far) doesn't 'make' Watson a female, but does replace Watson with a young female. That has worked well for fans of that series of books with Holmes as a supporting character.
Mod
posted “It’s Elementary: Why a Female Watson Isn’t a Bad Idea for Latest Holmes Series�, which is in my opinion yet another voice in that peculiar Elementary choir, more properly thought of as ‘All We are Saying Is Give Elementary a Chance�. In the (Sherlockian) world where Sherlock Holmes - oft described as inhuman due to his lack of emotion (outward anyway) - is celebrated, worshiped and aggressively defended via the most passionate of methods, I find it odd that the ‘critical response� (if one could call it that) to Elementary can be summed up in four short, rather pathetic, words: �give it a chance� - hardly a catchphrase to instill excitement or even interest.
I’ve held off watching the ‘review screener� of Elementary’s pilot episode which has been floating around, but based on various trailers, interviews with actors (Jonny Lee Miller) and 140 character responses to said trailer, the prognosis my dear Joan (Watson!) is not great.
In regards to that last point (ie. 140 character responses), David Stuart Davies, author of various Holmes pastiches as well as non-fiction Sherlock Holmes studies - most notably the brilliant and essential Bending the Willow: Jeremy Brett As Sherlock Holmes (1996) which some would call the last word on JB’s Granada/Sherlock years - had these things to say after watching the full Elementary pilot:
1) @DStuartDavies ”Elementary lives up - or is that down - to its name. A pale shadow of the BBC Sherlock. Underwhelming. Unlikely to become required viewing�.
2) @DStuartDavies ”Watched ELEMENTARY.Ho hum! In the same frame as Monk/Castle. Not terribly Sherlockian. Some moments but a pale shadow of the BBC. And.-why?�
As more and more people (hardcore Sherlockians, BBC Sherlock enthusiasts and TV fans alike) watch and report on Elementary, it becomes overwhelmingly obvious that the world’s response to those four words (“give it a chance�) will become even shorter: “W?�
[The above piece is a modified version of something I wrote for my for Always1895.net this past week.
Rohit wrote: "even i didnt like tht they made watson into a female! y is it hard to accept in todays world that 2 males cant be just good friends? or why people misinterpret them as boyfriends or gays?? even in ..."haha, I misinterpret them as boyfriends or gays because it is HOT. pffft! :)
I haven't seen that screen/pilot. Not terribly interested in tracking it down and downloading it. I always got the feeling that it would be basically Monk or Psych or something. Which I don't mind, I like those shows. I don't geek out about the shows, but neither do I think they are awful.
I just caught a review of "Elementary" in today's NY Post (or it may have been yesterday's). Answers the why-I-often-like-the-comments-more-than-the-writeup question. Here's a link:
J. wrote: "I just caught a review of "Elementary" in today's NY Post (or it may have been yesterday's). Answers the why-I-often-like-the-comments-more-than-the-writeup question. Here's a link:..."
haha, that's amazing. Often I skip the actual review/article/blog post and go directly to the comments.
Wow ... that was pretty bad. I don't know if I can be bothered giving it a second episode - from the daddy issues to the handcuffs and tattoos to a mostly flat performance from Liu... not good.
I agree. The fact that Holmes was made into a trust fund child who has to play nice with Daddy or he will be cut off was absurd. I also didn't like the fact Holmes had tattoos or the fact he was with a prostitute. I also thought the story was less than impressive and seemed to drag on for me. I will give it another episode or two but I have a feeling that will be it. Lucy Lu wasn't bad, I at least like her as an actress and the character of Watson had a similar personality so she at least did her home work.
The "deductions" were fairly lame, too; he read her parking ticket and Googled. There ya go.
Rohit wrote: "not on tv in INDIA :("Consider yourself lucky.
I liked it. I know where I will every Thursday at ten pm. Working :-( thank God for DVD recorders.
I liked it for what it was. I think it would be a great detective show if it was based around it's own character and not Sherlock Holmes. When I was watching it, I got more of a Adrien Monk and Gregory House feel than Sherlock Holmes. I'll keep watching it until it either gets cancelled or I just get tired of watching it.
Thanks to @holmesnews on twitter for the story and link.