Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ

This was brought to mind by a little back and forth I've begun with another GR friend about Andre Norton's Elvenblood, which was written with Mercedes Lackey (you know who you are, Elizabeth ;-) -

1. Do you think collaborative efforts work or is it a matter of "too many chefs in the kitchen"? It's not a new phenomenon: Joseph Conrad and Ford Madox Ford collaborated, though not very successfully; and Shakespeare worked with other playwrights (Pericles and Henry VIII immediately come to mind).

2. When do collaborations work and why do you think that's so?

And by "collaboration" I don't mean a shared-world series like Liavek or Thieves' World or the Forgotten Realms but a work that's ostensibly written by more than one hand.

Great topic...I think having someone to bounce ideas off of as a "colaborator" would definitely help a book - but I think there can be only one person laying ink to paper. There has to be one hand "steering the ship" as it were. But that is just my 2 cents.

Hmmmm...I've often wondered how this works. I mean who does what? I know Stephen King and Peter Straub have successfully collaborated, then there are those situations that are different such as James Patterson. So many of Patterson's books really aren't written by him but the way his name is placed on the book you'd think so. Those seem unfair as I imagine Patterson does very little of the actual work and gets all the credit (and money).

I definitely think that collaboration can work, as long as the authors work together toward a common goal rather than each trying to write their own story and then piece them together.

One of my favorite books is a collaborative effort: The Talisman by Stephen King and Peter Straub. I have read this book dozens of times. I have read almost everything there is to read by King, but I can't tell where one author stops and the other starts.

Another that I read recently, Good Omens by Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett, was also very good. I certainly can't claim to be an expert on either of these authors though, this was the first I'd read for both. Still, it entertained me, and that's what matters to me.

I really enjoyed 'The Talisman' as well, Becky. Another excellent collaboration are 'The Chronicles of the Shadow War' by George Lucas and Chris Claremont. It's a 3 book series that starts where the story that became the movie 'Willow' left off. The first is Shadow Moon. Also, my absolute fave fantasy artist Ciruelo Cabral did the covers. I wanted him to do the covers for my books, but he had a 2-year backlog of jobs.

Awesome Leslie! I haven't seen Willow in years and years, but I remember loving it as a kid. I will have to check this out!

On a semi-related note, I remember seeing Prof. Flitwick in the 1st Harry Potter movie and yelling, "Holy crap! It's Willow!" (Luckily I was in my living room at the time...)

Sometimes collaborations can be great. Partners in Wonder is a great example. Harlan Ellison collaborates on short stories with a bunch of other authors. Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle collaborated on a lot of good books. They worked seamlessly together.

I haven't liked most of the books Roger Zelazny collaborated on except Coils which he did with Fred Saberhagen. Zelazny is one of my favorite authors by himself & I generally like the other authors as well..

I think what makes a collaboration work for me is when the authors complement each other - not so much shoring up the weak points of the other, but adding new dimensions to each others work. I think Ellison is the epitimy of that. He's got a great imagination & having it complemented by others took the stories in directions that were unexpected, but quite good.

Sometimes it can go to extremes like Deus Irae, a collaboration between Philip K. Dick &Roger Zelazny. I couldn't find anything in the story that I identified or cared about, so I never finished it. That's not unusual for me with PKD books, though. I often don't care about his characters at all.

At LosCon, I heard a brother-brother collaboration team talk about how they worked on their soon-to-be published sci-fi book, and I apologize for blanking out on their names, but the book is titled 'The Deconstructed Man' and Tor is putting it out. The two hashed out the plot together first, then the one brother actually wrote the book while the other acted as editor for both style and content.

That's really good info, Leslie. I've always wondered in collaborations how that works. Do they trade chapters? Do they each pick a character to write about? So in the case of those brothers, that makes sense.

A good collaboration I've read recently, from 3 authors no less, was Hunter's Run, a sci-fi by George R.R. Martin, Daniel Abraham and Garner Dozois. A fun and interesting read. I'd really like to know how 3 authors split a work like that.

I'm an aspiring writer and have worked (or am working on) a couple of things with my friends. It's a lot of fun but for me it can be frustrating because I have solid ideas of how I want things to happen and others don't always agree. If you can get past that it can be a fun experience.

sometimes collaborations r good. like the dragonlance series, there r tons of books under the umbrella series name 'dragonlance chronicles', most of which r written by margaret weis and tracy hickman. and these two r great with collaborations, u cant even tell its two different authors. they really work well together.


semi-related note: how do u chose the books u read every month? 'cause i would like to suggest reading 'dragons of autumn twilight', by weis/hickman. or 'a rumor of dragons' and 'night of the dragons', which r 'dragons of autumn twilight', only split into two books.

I think collaborations require the right pair. I have read some not so good collaborations, but I have also read some great ones. Good Omens The Nice and Accurate Prophecies of Agnes Nutter, Witch is a cult classic that was written by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman. Their collaboration makes for a great book that I would highly recommend.

Another great collaboration is that of Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman who have collaborated a number of times in the Dragonlance series. I definitely think that series would be horribly lacking without their collaboration. (Though I haven't read Dragonlance since I was a wee lad it is still one of the sources for my love of fantasy)

What about those Dean Koontz Frankenstein books: Prodigal Son & City of Night? What do y'all think of those? I liked them, but like many was annoyed when the third book never happened.

I'm not sure how much was Dean Koontz and how much was written by the collaborators. I did wonder if his name was on there to get the money while the other dudes did the writing (like with James Patterson, as mentioned above).

Weis and Hickman also collaborated on the Deathgate Cycle, which honestly I believe to be even better then the Dragonlance series.

Another good collaboration is the Dhampir series by Barb and J.C. Hendee, you can't tell that there are two authors writing the series.

I think Collin's got the right idea, it takes the right pair.

So I have no idea how the collaboration worked with Gaiman and Prachett but Good Omens is hilarious and it is obvious from the writing they had a lot of fun together.

-- Wife of GR author Michael J. Sullivan: The Crown Conspiracy (10/08) | Avempartha (04/09)

I've not read Good Omens but it is on my TBR - Trying to decide my next "read" it might just be this one.

I think that it is the method of how they work together, however they work together.

For example:
The Outstretched Shadow by Mercedes Lackey and James Mallory is, like Good Omens, very cohesive and does not feel as unwieldy as Elvenblood sometimes seems.

If you get the newer version of Good Omens they actually talk about how they wrote it in the back -- which has a Q and A with both authors. I don't have the book on me at the moment, but when I get it back I can post a little that they say.

Neil Gaiman + Terry Pratchett = Gold.

I just pulled a book called Castle of Deception out of my library, by Mercedes Lackey and Josepha Sherman, I'll have to see how that one works. I'd put in the link but the add book function is giving me some strange results lately.

i have started writting a few "books" with different friends.
in one of them, we basically roleplay our characters, but we discuss most of what will happen before we write it out. its more like short stories then anything, but the method works pretty well if you just want to write a short story with no overly complacated plots.

i am also writting another story with a different friend that we hope one day to publish. we each have a character that is 'ours', though the other person knows the character pretty well because we disscuse them so much. since we dont live in the same city, we both write different parts of the story and send it to the other via email. that works pretty well too for if one of us gets writers block, the other can continue from when they left off. i have no idea if that is how other collaborative authors work, or if the end result will be any good, but so far its working for us...

This sounds like a lot of fun. I'm thinking about doing something similar with my own friends who I role play with.

Tried this back in the 90's with my then writing group and a dungeonmaster. Our adventure bogged down after a wonderful start and our memorable characters ended up going nowhere. Better to use a predefined plot, even if it's brainstormed by the collaborators, rather than trying to use somebody else's world and depend on a non-writer to keep the story going. I think it worked for Gaiman and Pratechett because they are both professionals and not likely to screw up.

Michael's third book is dedicated to Steven Gillick a friend of his who started a "chain book" back and forth where each would right a chapter etc. Steve tired of the exercise but it was the spark that eventually became Riyria.

Robin (The Crown Conspiracy | Avempartha | Nyphron Rising)

Wow, that is interesting to know! It's fun to learn what inspires great fantasy tales!

In high school we started a written fantasy club. It was definitely exciting to have ideas and opinions flowing freely, but I only tried writing collaborative fiction twice. The first try ended horribly. It was amazingly fun creating a world with all it's rules, geography and politics with someone else. The trouble came with characterization. We had conflicting ideas on how this or that character would handle a situation, and it quickly degenerated into a nasty pi**ing contest with a jumbled worthless story. Our male competitiveness unsatisfied, we tried again in the same world and an with an agreed upon outline. We wrote seperately this time, vying for the attention of a pretty girl with heavy eyeliner. What came out were two of the best stories either of us had yet written.
And the girl? She started dating an actor and lead singer in a garage band. C'est la vie.

What an interesting and comical story, Matt. Thanks for sharing it.

I guess collaborative writing wouldn't work if those involved wanted to dominate the story or not compromise on certain parts, like the characters in your case.

In my experience, when collaborators collide headlong on an issue, a push pull argument will spoil the brew. The only way to salvage the impasse is to strike out for a third option - there will be one. And inevitably, that third route not only saves the situation, but is the better one for the story.

That's how Ray Feist and I came out of our experience, still friends.

It is all about, not your way, or my way, or the highway, but in seeking, then finding that third voice that is neither one or the other.

Nice way of explaining it, Janny!

Wow nice your friends with Feist cool! But yes i liked that little story. As for me being in highschool no one likes fantasy. Or books in that case. I cant find anyone who likes anything that i do it really sucks but meh what can you do right.

That's what GoodReads is for, Gróin. My best friend (AKA, The Boss, my wife, Marg) & I both read a lot & often the same books. My son & daughter also do, but outside of that tight little circle, not many others do. I found that growing up too. We're a minority, be proud of it! We can take cheap trips to far away places for just a few dollars any time we want. They spend thousands each year for a few, quickly forgotten days.

;-)

If you haven't read the Empire Trilogy that Feist & Janny wrote together, you really should. Start with his 2 books; Magician Apprentice & Master, though. They set the stage.

O sweet i shall have to invest some time into those. And i am very proud of who I am and the minority i am ajoined with! It is too bad that others cant understand the beauty of it as we do. What can you do, o well. :)

I have liked a lot of collaborations already mentioned, like the Empire series, Weis and Hickman's Dragonlance, so I think if you like the authors apart, which I do, you will probably like them together.
I also really liked David Eddings books, which he later credited wife Leigh as co-author of, and the more recent Dune novels, like House Atreides. I didn't like them as much as the original Dune series mind you, but that would be almost impossible for me.