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Brooklyn
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July Group Read - Brooklyn
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Sheila , Supporting Chick
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rated it 3 stars
Jun 23, 2012 03:07PM

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I'm in the first time. Just downloaded it to Kindle. Sounds like a facinating book, and being part Irish, I will enjoy it even more.
I just finished it. I was pleasantly surprised. :)


that I picked up Saturday. I listened for a little while on Saturday and Sunday; it went by really quickly.


I just started mine today. A little early, but I'm old and it takes me longer to comprehend and keep in the brain. Ha!

I had no idea how short this book was. I thought it was really long, so I started it early. I am on the last chapter already. I am really enjoying it and can't wait to participate in the discussion with everyone.



Did you like or dislike the book? If you liked it, what did you enjoy? If you did not, what detracted from the experience?
Did you have a favorite sceen?
If you could have had any secondary character developed more fully, which would it have been; who would you have liked to know more about?
What was your reaction to the ending? Was it satisfying?
Great questions, Irene.
Did you like or dislike the book?
To be truthful, I went in to this book thinking I probably would not enjoy it. The description did not really grab me, and I went into it with the expectation of getting through it, but being bored. I have to admit I was pleasantly surprised, and did end up liking the book. It did have a slower pace to it, but I liked how the story focused on Eilis, and showed us life as seen through her young eyes.
Did you have a favorite scene?
Hmm, hard to say. I did enjoy the naivety of Eilis, and how she reacted to the world. Things like her experience on the ship, with her worldlier bunkmate, her experiences with young men, her experiences with her roommates and seeing them as Eilis saw them, and her experience with the fellow store workers, such as the incident where she was trying on swimsuits. Her youth and inexperience with life was apparent in all these things, and I found her points of view refreshing to the story.
Who would you have liked to know more about?
Thinking about it, I think I enjoyed not having the secondary characters be any more developed. If we had known more about many of these people, the book would have become their story also, and not just the story of Eilis.
What was your reaction to the ending
I did not understand some of the decisions and choices that Eilis made at the ending, or I guess I could not relate to her choices or may not have made the same choices myself. But I did enjoy how the book ended. I liked the path this story took us on, and the way the story was told.
Did you like or dislike the book?
To be truthful, I went in to this book thinking I probably would not enjoy it. The description did not really grab me, and I went into it with the expectation of getting through it, but being bored. I have to admit I was pleasantly surprised, and did end up liking the book. It did have a slower pace to it, but I liked how the story focused on Eilis, and showed us life as seen through her young eyes.
Did you have a favorite scene?
Hmm, hard to say. I did enjoy the naivety of Eilis, and how she reacted to the world. Things like her experience on the ship, with her worldlier bunkmate, her experiences with young men, her experiences with her roommates and seeing them as Eilis saw them, and her experience with the fellow store workers, such as the incident where she was trying on swimsuits. Her youth and inexperience with life was apparent in all these things, and I found her points of view refreshing to the story.
Who would you have liked to know more about?
Thinking about it, I think I enjoyed not having the secondary characters be any more developed. If we had known more about many of these people, the book would have become their story also, and not just the story of Eilis.
What was your reaction to the ending
I did not understand some of the decisions and choices that Eilis made at the ending, or I guess I could not relate to her choices or may not have made the same choices myself. But I did enjoy how the book ended. I liked the path this story took us on, and the way the story was told.

One sceen that caught my attention was the point when Eilis gets the basement bedroom and the older girls try to convince her that she got it because it was too dangerous of a location for anyone else to be foolish enough to take. I loved her wheels turning. I could see the layers of nieve trust of the world drop from her shoulders as she began to realize that their story might be true or might be a tale spun out of spite, as she calculated how to play her cards. I loved watching Eilis change from the sheltered little sister into a woman who could determine the direction of her life without asking and taking maternal advice.
Fr. Flood was the secondary character that intrigued me. He is far from the typical priest of modern literature. His selfless generosity extends without discrimination to all. How did he get to that point.
I loved the ending. I could not decide if this should get 3 or 4 stars. But, the ending pushed it over the line. At the end, Eilis realizes the cost of her decision to return to Tony and how she would understand the fullness of that cost more and more as she ages, but others would realize it less and less. It was so many little pieces that put her on that return boat, not some grand gesture of passion or quest for some dream. The young girl who had, just one year earlier, known that her oldr sister would have been the better choice for such a journey, who never wanted to leave home and would have been content to care for her mother into old age, is now leaving her mother totally alone and broken hearted. The grandkids and great grandkids, the numerous generations to come after, would never know the strength it took to walk out the front door, to leave that letter in Jimmy's mail slot, to say farewell to the person she had been and life she had lived, but the hole inside her would grow with each decade.
I appreciated how Tobin does not hit us over the head with his themes, but lets the reader figure things out in the same way we do with our own lives.
I have a couple of questions if any of you can answer. Does it say anywhere in the story how old Eilis is,or about what year this is taking place? I tried to look back and find it out. Mostly curious. Thanks.
Becky wrote: " Does it say anywhere in the story how old Eilis is,or about what year this is taking place? "
The description of the book here on Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ says this story is set in the early 1950's.
As for how old Eilis was, I was picturing her being in her early 20's though I suppose she could have been in her late teens. She was taking vocational classes in Ireland before she came to America, so I pictured her being college age.
The description of the book here on Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ says this story is set in the early 1950's.
As for how old Eilis was, I was picturing her being in her early 20's though I suppose she could have been in her late teens. She was taking vocational classes in Ireland before she came to America, so I pictured her being college age.
Sheila wrote: "Becky wrote: " Does it say anywhere in the story how old Eilis is,or about what year this is taking place? "
The description of the book here on Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ says this story is set in the early 1950'..."
Thanks, that is what I am also guessing. Some of the descriptions of the store and how they use to shoot up the payments I remember as a child, so it had to be in the 1950's. Thanks alot
The description of the book here on Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ says this story is set in the early 1950'..."
Thanks, that is what I am also guessing. Some of the descriptions of the store and how they use to shoot up the payments I remember as a child, so it had to be in the 1950's. Thanks alot

I did enjoy the book. More than I thought I would. I felt it was simply written, yet such a beautiful style. I really liked that you could feel the heat from the sidewalks in Brooklyn and the cold. I thought the descriptions were well done.
I don't think I really had a favorite scene. I enjoyed the descriptions of the dances. I never realized how important these social gatherings were and reading about them really showed how people would meet then.
I think that the descriptions of the secondary characters was sufficient, because like a previous poster said, I think if they were developed more it would have taken away from Eilis' story.
I have to admit, I got angry at Eilis at the end. When she went home to Ireland I felt for Tony. I really liked him and the choices Eilis made I thought were just, well, bad. I know she is young and heartbroken, but she was becoming her own person in America, she could have and should have spoken up about her life changes ESPECIALLY her marriage to Tony right from the start. At least that's how I think, I'm a gal from the later half of the century I have no idea how I would react back then.
I don't think I really had a favorite scene. I enjoyed the descriptions of the dances. I never realized how important these social gatherings were and reading about them really showed how people would meet then.
I think that the descriptions of the secondary characters was sufficient, because like a previous poster said, I think if they were developed more it would have taken away from Eilis' story.
I have to admit, I got angry at Eilis at the end. When she went home to Ireland I felt for Tony. I really liked him and the choices Eilis made I thought were just, well, bad. I know she is young and heartbroken, but she was becoming her own person in America, she could have and should have spoken up about her life changes ESPECIALLY her marriage to Tony right from the start. At least that's how I think, I'm a gal from the later half of the century I have no idea how I would react back then.

Sheila, Which decisions of Eilis did you disagree with?
Tina, Did you like Jimmy as much as Tony? Why did you want her to end up with Tony over Jimmy?
Why do you thik that Eilis kept her relationship with Tony a secret from everyone in Ireland, except Rose? The letters arrived from him, a perfect opportunity to say something, but she does not. Why does she stop reading Tony's letters? Does her mother know about Tony? Do you think the mother guesses at the degree of commitment to Tony or does she just think this is a more casual boyfriend? What makes Eilis choose Tony and America over Jimmy and Ireland? Is it simply the possibility of being disgraced by a divorce or is it something more?

I thought Father Flood was an interesting character. He certainly was into everyone's business and always found a way to pull a string or two; honestly, it reminded me of how an Italian mob boss would run a community. Weird analogy, but with him knowing everyone's business and exchanging favors for penance of sins.
It was clever to have Ms. Kelly be the intervening force that makes Eilis decide to go back. Of all people to come back into the plot and force Eilis to make a decision, she came out as the final villain.

I enjoyed the book as well. I'm still tossing around whether it was a 3 or 4 star read for me. I think the part I enjoyed most was the simple, straight-forward writing. It was easy to follow, which allowed me to fully develop my mental images.
My favorite part(s) had to be the relationship between Eilis and her mother. Specifically when she returned home to Ireland after Rose's death. Their dialogue made me feel for both of them. I felt her mother was plowing through the events as if reading them from a step by step list. She wasn't listening to Eilis or even considering having any type of discussion with her. I believe Eilis was being respectful of her mother and the grieving taking place. I really feel like she wanted to bring up Tony and she struggled with it inside; I just don't think she ever found the right opportunity or quite new how to talk to her mom about her new husband.
I did struggle with how close she allowed herself to become to Jimmy and I started to wonder if she felt she had married Tony too early. Of course now, I'm wondering how she felt arriving back in America. Was she able to continue with life as it was? Was she able to put Jimmy and Ireland out of her mind, or did she feel she had to explain the whole trip to Tony. Initially, I was frustrated by the ending, it left me with too many questions. A week later, I have an appreciation for the ending. She was faced with a significant choice/decision and she made it. I respect her decision. I'm not sure how I would have felt if she did not return to Tony.

As for seeing her father in the homeless man, I thought we were seeing little ways in which her heart and mind was still home in Ireland. We had heard about the father's death before she left Ireland. We know that he was very much missed and loved by the family who did not talk openly about such things as grief. It put me in mind of a personal experience when I thought I heard the voice of a child I had come to care about through work at a homeless shelter and who had been placed in the foster care system. I was hundreds of miles away from that shelter when I had that brief flash of recognition, living in a brand new city where I still felt like a stranger and was missing the place and work I had left. The mind plays odd trics on us. But, that phantom voice told me where my heart was which was very far from the location of my body. I thought that momentary mis-recognition said the same thing.
Collin, Do you thhink that the mother's chatter was a way of preventing Eilis from telling her what she did not want to hear, that Eilis had found a strong connection in America that might draw her away from Ireland? Early in Eilis' arrival I felt some ambiguity about telling her mother about Tony. She did not know how to reveal to her mother that she had married without including the family in the courtship and decision. As we watched Nancy's wedding, I came to realize what a community affair a wedding would have been and how much a secret wedding would have violated social norms. But, as the weeks passed, as she developed the attraction to Jimmy and fell into the comfortable patterns of friendships and conversations, as she saw herself regarded with greater respect by this small community, I think she did not tell her mother because she wanted to pretend that Tony had not happened. It felt as if she wanted to believe that if she did not tell it to anyone in Ireland, than it could be a dream, something that happened to another person and she could walk away from it. At some level, it seemed as if Eilis wanted to stay at home and assume something of Rose's persona. But, Mrs. Kelly said it out loud and made it real. She shattered the illusion.
I was partial to Tony. I felt that Tony loved her and wanted to follow that post WWII American dream that he and his family were trying to earn.
Jimmy was a non-issue until she went back. IMO, Jimmy HAD his chance but he missed the opportunity to get together with her before she left for America. I wonder, if he made his move BEFORE she left, would she had gone and Rose left for America?
Jimmy was a non-issue until she went back. IMO, Jimmy HAD his chance but he missed the opportunity to get together with her before she left for America. I wonder, if he made his move BEFORE she left, would she had gone and Rose left for America?

Irene wrote: "Nancy, What questions did this book prompt you to ask?
Sheila, Which decisions of Eilis did you disagree with?
Tina, Did you like Jimmy as much as Tony? Why did you want her to end up with Tony ..."
Irene wrote: ".Sheila, Which decisions of Eilis did you disagree with?"
The things I disagreed with were basically the same things Nancy questioned.
Why did she get married when she was not sure she loved Tony? I understand why Tony wanted to get married (to make sure she would come back), but why did she agree? Then, why did she keep it a secret from her family, and as Nancy says, why did she "emotionally" cheat on Tony while she was in Ireland? Was it just immaturity on her part?
The things I disagreed with were basically the same things Nancy questioned.
Why did she get married when she was not sure she loved Tony? I understand why Tony wanted to get married (to make sure she would come back), but why did she agree? Then, why did she keep it a secret from her family, and as Nancy says, why did she "emotionally" cheat on Tony while she was in Ireland? Was it just immaturity on her part?

What do others think about the issues that Nancy and Sheila raise? Did you find adequate motivation for Eilis' quick marriage to Tony and her secrecy about it? Was her relationship with Jimmy plausible?
As Eilis was with Jimmy at the end, I kept hearing the old 70s song (was it Fleetwood Mack?) "Love the One You're With" in my head. She is obviously physically attracted to both men. Is she too immature to know the difference between love and lust? Both Tony and Jimmy confess their insecurities to her, how devistated they would be if she were to reject him. Eilis is a people-pleaser to some extent. I felt as if she slowly allowed herself to b drawn into the relationship with Jimmy for a mixture of complex reasons: she felt the physical arrousal, he was like a little boy who needed her love and she did not want to hurt him, he represented all that was familiar and comfortable and a relationship with Jimmy would allow her to stay in Ireland, as time and miles passed she disconnected from her life in America. It was if Jimmy and Tony were symbols of two life options, the old world with its familiarity and circumscribed future and the new world with its unknown possibilities and excitement. In Ireland, everyone told her what to do, but gave her just enough freedom to feel content, a bit like adolescence. In America, all was strange and the lifelines were far more sparce, a bit like adulthood.

Irene, thanks for your comments. I appreciate your thoughts, and I think you are absolutely correct about the author developing the multiculturalism of Brooklyn/NYC. I guess I'm just used to having the Holocaust be a much more significant theme when it is brought into a story. Not that this book is about the Holocaust, but it seemed like a blip on the screen. Even her confrontation with the professor when she asked about supplemental books seemed to leave something hanging. He didn't really speak with her, only asked about the pace of the class. I thought maybe there would be one other conversation between them, not about being Jewish, but some additional insight into his character.
I too favored Tony and hoped she would return to him. He put his heart on his sleeve and allowed himself to be so vulnerable in their relationship. He was eager to share with her and provide for her. Eilis concerns that she wouldn't be able to have her own bookkeeping career when they got married seemed unwarranted, as Tony had always been a sensitive and supportive boyfriend, willing to do anything for her. When she started becoming involved with Jimmy, I started to think that she didn't deserve Tony. A very knee-jerk reaction to her emotional/physical infidelity, as I know she was dealing with a significant internal struggle between her two lives.

The bathing suit scene was another place where I wondered if we were goin to get some new theme introduced. The way the supervisor looks at her, touches her, all seems rrotic. But, rather than introducing some awkward lesbian situation, it serves simply to awaken her sexuality.

Also, I would have never pulled all the details related to the American characters together to see them as the author's way of showing us a diverse NY. And I love reading this thread to re-experience the details of an Irish Eilis compared to an American Eilis.
Mrs. Kelly...she wasn't my favorite. What's the meaning behind her briskness. To prevent Eilis from enjoying her job and digging her heels into Ireland?


The one point in America that I flashed back to Kelly was when the department store decided to welcome "colored" ladies, not just accept them but go out of their way to advertise to them. It was clear that the African American ladies that came for stockings had money, yet they were still shunned because of their skin color. In the little homogenious Irish town, there is no indication of religious, ethnic or racial difference, so money and/or professional standing became the means of discrimination. Where as Brooklyn store courts the group at the bottom of the social ladder because it is a business opportunity, Kelly discourages the less afluent sho stop at her store. She hikes prices to discourage them, offers overtly poorer service when they do come in as if to chase them away. I tried to picture Ms Kelly in the department store the morningthe the first "colored" ladies came to buy stockings.
Rebecca wrote: "Thank you for your posting Sheila, because of it I am still reading. I have to admit it isnt one I would pick up myself. The beginning was pretty flat but I am starting to enjoy more that Elis is on her way to America..."
That is one thing I love about these groups reads. I also never would have picked this book up on my own, and when it was discussed in the nomination thread, reading the description did't really catch my fancy. But since it was picked by others, I decided to give it a go. And it ended up being a charming, thought inducing read for me. The book grew on me the more I read it, and this discussion is making me continue to think about it, and think about it in ways that didn't necessarily cross my mind while I was reading it.
So thank you to everyone who is participating in this discussion, and thank you to Irene for nominating this one and leading the discussion, and thank you to all who gave this book a go, those who thought this would be your thing from the beginning, and those who, like me, may never have picked it up if it had not been a group read.
That is one thing I love about these groups reads. I also never would have picked this book up on my own, and when it was discussed in the nomination thread, reading the description did't really catch my fancy. But since it was picked by others, I decided to give it a go. And it ended up being a charming, thought inducing read for me. The book grew on me the more I read it, and this discussion is making me continue to think about it, and think about it in ways that didn't necessarily cross my mind while I was reading it.
So thank you to everyone who is participating in this discussion, and thank you to Irene for nominating this one and leading the discussion, and thank you to all who gave this book a go, those who thought this would be your thing from the beginning, and those who, like me, may never have picked it up if it had not been a group read.

This is a book I don't think that I would have picked up on my own, so I really enjoyed reading it. The depiction of the way Eilis became aware of different cultures and yet didn't intermix too closely with them (I remember Tony not wanting to tell Eilis' friends he was Italian and not Irish) seems accurate of that time era. I also enjoyed watching her become more mature and less naive as she became more experienced on her own.

I was looking at the publisher questions. One of them notes the ignorance Eilis displays of the Holocaust when talking with the clerk in the bookstore. It asks what this incident reveals to the reader about the Ireland in which Eilis grew up? Obviously, her lack of awareness would have been shocking to the average New Yorker of the time and shows the isolation of Eilis' Irish town. Was this an effective way to help the reader understand Eilis and her world?
I was thinking about Eilis' conversation with her brother who has been working in England. He describes his experience in terms of his difference from the English. He never feels himself at home in England, hangs out with other Irish working men. Is this Eilis' experience? Does her greater exposure to nonn-Irish friendships cause her to feel more or less connected to Ireland and/or America? I was struck by the way Eilis appears changed in the eyes of the neighbors on her return visit. I never heard anyone comment on how the young men changed. Does this say anything about the various foreign working experiences?


You posted some great questions - I'm looking forward to hearing some different opinions on them. I'm wondering if anyone else has heard stories from relatives who came to the U.S. around the same time. My grandparents arrived pre WWI, but I know they made a point of welcoming new immigrants and helping them to find their way around.
Irene wrote: "Why did Tobin choose to depict Eilis' American Christmas experiences as he did? ..."
I was thinking that the first year, Eilis did not feel that close to the people in the boarding house, and probably spent her first Christmas feeding the homeless because she was lonely, and missed her family, and this was a way for her to occupy her mind and time. But then she saw the one man who reminded her of her father, so I think she might have ended up with some warm feelings from her first Christmas in American. Which is why I could imagine her declining spending Christmas with friends the second year to instead serve meals to the homeless again. Her first year doing in ended up having special meaning for her?
I was thinking that the first year, Eilis did not feel that close to the people in the boarding house, and probably spent her first Christmas feeding the homeless because she was lonely, and missed her family, and this was a way for her to occupy her mind and time. But then she saw the one man who reminded her of her father, so I think she might have ended up with some warm feelings from her first Christmas in American. Which is why I could imagine her declining spending Christmas with friends the second year to instead serve meals to the homeless again. Her first year doing in ended up having special meaning for her?




I really enjoyed this book! I was afraid it would be dry and full of facts but it was thoroughly wonderful. I enjoyed Eilis and her family. I enjoyed the dynamics! I couldn’t imagine an opportunity to go to America for work and education and then leaving my family and making the journey alone.
My favorite scene � I would have to say when she went to Tony’s parents for dinner for the first time. Frank cracked me up. Everyone’s pain in the butt little brother. LOL.
Secondary character more developed � I would have to say Mrs. Kehoe. I found her interesting and she had many opinions, it’s not till the end of the book that you find out her connection to America. Dreadful!! Ms. Kelly was my least favorite character and very nosy and manipulative, but I was proud of Eilis for staying quiet.
The ending- I have mixed emotions about that. I hated that she left her mother. I really thought she wouldn’t go. She realized that she wasn’t in love with Tony but going to America was probably the best decision for her as far as a good future goes, but I think she will keep a special place in her heart for Jimmy. Poor guy�.

Have to say your paragraph about the ending was dead on. Well said..

Sheila, Which decisions of Eilis did you disagree with?
Tina, Did you like Jimmy as much as Tony? Why did you want her to end up with Tony ..."
Eilis keeps her relationship about Tony a secret because I’m not sure she was convinced he was the “one�. I think they married because of Tony’s insecurity not because they were head over heels in love. She stops reading Tony’s letters to put him in the back of her mind, to enjoy the time she has with her family, friends and Jimmy in Ireland. Again, I think a minor turn of events and she may not have returned to America.
I don’t think she chose Tony over Jimmy; it was more America over Ireland. In the big picture, her sister has orchestrated this wonderful opportunity for her, maybe she felt she owed it to Rose to be successful here; she had a good education, a man who loved her, maybe she wasn’t as far in as he was, but she knew he was a good man and would provide a good life for her.
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