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This is our discussion of the novel....

Princeps' Fury by Jim Butcher

The fifth book in the Codex Alera series. See The Codex Alera discussion hub for more info on the series and pointers to discussion of its other novels.

A couple of things from the last book that still nag as I read the start of this...

* Bernard & Amara's marriage kept flip-flopping from secret to public last book. It seems pretty public now, though I'm not sure how the whole "legionaires arn't allowed to marry" thing got side-stepped, the original reason for the secrecy.

* Book 3 ended pretty explicitly suggesting that Kitai had some sort of access to furycrafting, presumably because of her blood-link to Tavi. That's never been touched on since.

Pretty sure the Kitai furycrafting thing was book 4, since that's where Tavi himself ramps up on it. In book 3 it ends with Tavi finding out he could use furies by turning out the light.

I think I'll be disappointed if Isana solves the Icemen issue on her own with a simple diplomatic meeting. I mean dealing with them could have been an entire book on it's own but now it's going to be a side story. Admittedly since it seems we're dealing with Vord now and I can't imagine what will be left for the last book (unless the Vord require two)

But Tavi fortunately gets the most page time and I'm enjoying the worldbuilding around the Canim. Butcher put a lot of effort into their history, customs, language, behaviour, etc.

These ice walls seem pretty popular in fantasy. There's ASoIaF of course, and one here in Codex Alera, and there's a wall in The Unicorn Quest I just read, although for once they weren't keeping out an ice people (it was in the north though) but rather more dramatically a people that breath an atmosphere so noxious that just coming into physical contact with it will disolve you.

Andrea wrote: "Pretty sure the Kitai furycrafting thing was book 4, since that's where Tavi himself ramps up on it. In book 3 it ends with Tavi finding out he could use furies by turning out the light...."

It's in exactly that turning the light on scene you remember, right at the end of book 3, kind of a parting mystery. Tavi finally finds he can turn the light off and on, and Kitai counters by doing it herself:

“What I mean, Aleran,� she said quietly, “is that all this time you were acting as if it was some kind of monumental task. When it is so simple.� She turned her head enough to regard the furylamp and said, firmly, “Off.�
The lamp went out.
And before Tavi’s utter shock could really register, Kitai pressed him down to the floor and stopped his mouth with a kiss.

As far as I recall that's still the only reference to Kitai and furycrafting, as it doesn't come up in book 4 (that i remember). While Tavi isn't very good at furycrafting at the start of this book, he is able to do non-manifesting things like sense metal and increase his strength, but (at least as far as I've read) Kitai hasn't shown any of that. Which is weird since Butcher so clearly dropped it as a little surprise at the end of 3, and then seems to have just forgot about it. It seemed like it was going to be a big deal at the time.


Andrea wrote: "These ice walls seem pretty popular in fantasy. There's ASoIaF of course, and one here in Codex Alera, and there's a wall in The Unicorn Quest I just read, although for once they weren't keeping out an ice people..."

Funny you mention that, when the wall with against the icemen were mentioned, I immediately thought of ASoIaF's wall, too. :) Though at 50' it's nothing compared to ASoIaF's wall. (And it's granite, not ice, via earthcrafting.) (Then when Butcher mentioned the icemen had piled up corpses to make a ramp, I was sadly thinking of the movie World War Z.)

G33z3r wrote: "s far as I recall that's still the only reference to Kitai and furycrafting, as it doesn't come up in book 4 (that i remember). While Tavi isn't very good at furycrafting at the start of this book, he is able to do non-manifesting things like sense metal and increase his strength, but (at least as far as I've read) Kitai hasn't shown any of that. Which is weird since Butcher so clearly dropped it as a little surprise at the end of 3, and then seems to have just forgot about it. It seemed like it was going to be a big deal at the time."

I'm pretty sure Kitai was noted having some furycraft while Tavi was learning is how crafting, somewhere in the middle of the fourth book, I think Tavi sense some metalcrafting while they sparred. And I think also on the ship. Definitely no big deal was made of it but I'm sure it was there. It's perhaps overly subtle, kind of how Tavi picked up on some of her Marat powers, but we saw more of it since we had Tavi's POV (nobody else except Kitai would notice). We'd probably have Kitai thinking how easy furycrafting was if we'd had hers. It's probably a skill she doesn't feel is particular useful, just being Marat is still superior to anything Aleran so she hasn't done anything so overt that other characters noticed. Tavi would be like "sure whatever, we share powers" but everyone else would be "OMG a Marat with furycrafting!!" :)

Maybe saving it up for the last book, everyone is already shocked enough with the Vord furycrafting. Maybe she'll teach it to her people and the Icemen so the Alerans will stop going around wiping out the other races...seems they've already wiped out a few...in truth, the Alerans are the invaders, everyone else are native, so interestingly our protagonists are really the bad guys! The icemen are probably just trying to get back their original lands.

Andrea wrote: "I'm pretty sure Kitai was noted having some furycraft while Tavi was learning is how crafting,..."

OK, I may have missed it or just forgotten about it. We haven't had Kitai PoVs, so unless she tells Tavi about it, it's probably subtle.

I'm waiting for Kitai to become the Flying Marat. :)

Butcher really doesn't do any refresh on what has gone before. You either remember all these people (and their multiple secret identities) or you search previous books.

I'm about halfway through. I hope you're right about Tavi having the most pages. I guess Ehren gets some PoVs this time, too, surrounding Gaius Sextus, which may be an interesting story. And Marcus with Tavi.


Andrea wrote: "The icemen are probably just trying to get back their original lands...."

Could be. We're meant to understand that the icemen have been at war with Alera continuously for generations, and no one apparently has ever asked "why?" (also, if they ever stopped fighting, they'd probably have a huge overpopulation problem, given the body count of each of these forays.)

Tavi made peace with the Marat pretty much on his own, so maybe it's Isana's turn to win the Peace prize. :)

G33z3r wrote: "Butcher really doesn't do any refresh on what has gone before. You either remember all these people (and their multiple secret identities) or you search previous books."

Agreed, I'll have to remember to see if I can find the references but it's a big book

I'm about at the halfway point too.

G33z3r wrote: "We're meant to understand that the icemen have been at war with Alera continuously for generations, and no one apparently has ever asked "why?""

So far seems to be heading that way. As Doroga said, just tell them what you want, peace, and probably things will work out. After all without Doroga they probably would have started fighting after having the Iceman surround them (don't blame them, I'd also react badly to having my enemy pop out at me like that, I mean who goes to a diplomatic meeting like that and expect anything good to come of it, even if you think it's a trap, then don't show!!!) and of course the other side then drawing blades. Plus seems no Aleran has bothered to learn the Iceman language, nor vice-versa so needed a third-party translator. Hard to negotiate if nobody speaks the other language. At least Tavi had Varg to talk to and learn Canim from.

G33z3r wrote: "(also, if they ever stopped fighting, they'd probably have a huge overpopulation problem, given the body count of each of these forays.)"

Peace with Canim. Peace with Icemen. Peace with Marat. Presumably no more Vord when we're done...the place will be crawling with people...though all those groups tend to enjoy a fair bit of in-fighting too so maybe they'll just self-regulate their populations with civil wars :)

The funny thing is, those numbers sound insane, but then you watch a documentary on ancient Rome and realize that wiping out several thousand soldiers in a single battle was a common practice. And Rome still managed to hit a million people before it fell (took till the 20th century before it could claim that again). And add disease and famines and other disasters and you wonder how anyone survived...must be having LOTS of kids.

And I assume the Iceman wars must ebb and flow, otherwise both sides would run out of people eventually. They just happen to be inconveniently active at the same time as the Vord are.

I can see why Amara is concerned! She and Bernard will have to help with repopulating Alera after the Vord get through with them)

So...how did Lady Aquitaine end up working for the Vord? I'm getting some of the lords and ladies confused...who was pretending to be a cleaning lady and wanting to assassinate Tavi? Was that Aquitaine or Antillus (both wanted him dead)? And how did Lady Antillus end up with a slave collar?

Andrea wrote: "So...how did Lady Aquitaine end up working for the Vord? I'm getting some of the lords and ladies confused...who was pretending to be a cleaning lady and wanting to assassinate Tavi? Was that Aquitaine or Antillusl..."


Again, because Butcher doesn't even give you a clue to jog your memory. What must this be like if you waited a year between novels instead of a month?

Apparently undercover High Ladies are all over the legion camps.

High Lady Aquitaine was making trouble undercover as a washer woman (until Fidelius decided to "resign" by shooting her with a poison cross-bow bolt at the end of book 4 (yet she survived.)

Antillus Dorotea, High Lady Antillus & sister to Kalarus (the rebellious, RIP) was put in a discipline collar by Sarl. She's now undercover as a healer for the Free Aleran (ex-slave) army, and is a wanted traitor as far as most of Alera (save Tavi) is concerned.

By the way, the whole "only the person who put the discipline collar on can take it off" thing seems a design defect :)

G33z3r wrote: "What must this be like if you waited a year between novels instead of a month?"

I was thinking the exact same thing. I mean I don't like it when authors give a full info dump at the start of a book either, but there's admittedly a lot going on in these books with a lot of characters with fairly similar names

G33z3r wrote: "By the way, the whole "only the person who put the discipline collar on can take it off" thing seems a design defect"

At least should be able to transfer such control to an heir or something. Like any close blood relation could also take it off. After all what if you son falls in love with your slave and wants to marry her after you die ;)

Since it's just me and G33z3r here and we're reading about the same pace here's the only SPOILER ALERT being given

And to follow up with the Ladies, Aquitaine is now working for the Vord, but I've now found out that at least the majority of citizens are being controlled by slave collars, even Brencis. So perhaps Aquitaine is more a victim than a traitor...since it seemed a bit much to side with the Vord to overthrow Gaius given your husband will have a green croach covered land with no people and a bunch of freaky giant spiders to rule (and I suspect the Vord queens might object to the "rule" bit)...

Andrea wrote: "Admittedly since it seems we're dealing with Vord now and I can't imagine what will be left for the last book (unless the Vord require two)..."

Yeah, it seems the Vord require two :)

I'm also skipping SPOILER tags (I've finished reading.).

I'm not thrilled with the cloaks of invisibility Bernard & Amara now have. No one thought of this before?

I have to give Butcher credit, he did a nice job setting up the Amara w/ slave collar twist.

Andrea wrote: "So perhaps Aquitaine is more a victim than a traitor...since it seemed a bit much to side with the Vord to overthrow Gaius given your husband will have a green croach covered land with no people and a bunch of freaky giant spiders to rule..."

Looks like we have to wait another month to figure that.