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Hello Everyone,

Welcome to the eighth week of discussion for Enemies: A History of the FBI.

The eighth week's reading assignment is:

Week Eight - July 23rd - July 29th :

Chapters TWENTY-NINE, THIRTY, THIRTY-ONE, THIRTY-TWO p. 230 - 276
TWENTY-NINE - Rule by Fear, THIRTY - "You got this phone tapped?", THIRTY-ONE - "The man I'm depending on", and THIRTY-TWO - Clearly illegal

We will open up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers. We will also open up supplemental threads as we did for other spotlighted books.

This book kicked off on June 4th. We look forward to your participation. Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Borders and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, or on your Kindle/Nook. We offer a special thank you to Random House for their generosity.

There is no rush and we are thrilled to have you join us. It is never too late to get started and/or to post.

Bryan will be leading this discussion.

Welcome,

~Bentley & Bryan

TO ALWAYS SEE ALL WEEKS' THREADS SELECT VIEW ALL

Tim Weiner

Notes:

It is always a tremendous help when you quote specifically from the book itself and reference the chapter and page numbers when responding. The text itself helps folks know what you are referencing and makes things clear.

Citations

If an author or book is mentioned other than the book and author being discussed, citations must be included according to our guidelines. Also, when citing other sources, please provide credit where credit is due and/or the link. There is no need to re-cite the author and the book we are discussing however.

If you need help - here is a thread called the Mechanics of the Board which will show you how:

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/2...

Glossary

Remember there is a glossary thread where ancillary information is placed by the moderator. This is also a thread where additional information can be placed by the group members regarding the subject matter being discussed.

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/8...

Bibliography

There is a Bibliography where books cited in the text are posted with proper citations and reviews. We also post the books that the author used in her research or in her notes. Please also feel free to add to the Bibliography thread any related books, etc with proper citations. No self promotion, please.

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/8...

Q&A with Tim

Please as you are reading post questions to the author's Q&A thread because Tim Weiner will be looking in periodically and will be posting answers to your questions and will be available for a chat. We are very fortunate that he is making time to spend with us.

http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/8...

Tim Weiner

Chapter Overviews and Summaries

Chapter Twenty Nine: Rule by Fear

Hoover investigated Martin Luther King's (MLK) aide, Stanley Levison, because he felt there was a Communist link. The director sent reports on Levison to JFK, RFK, Lyndon Johnson (LBJ), and Senator Eastland. The reports led to a FBI investigation on Communists and MLK's SCLC. Hoover also thought the UN was a Soviet base for influencing the New Left.

Hoover met with JFK and apparently told him about Kennedy's affair with Judith Campbell and the plots to kill Castro. RFK got a call from Hoover stating his brother was shot. The FBI did not follow Lee Harvey Oswald for those last few weeks, and Hoover had to face the Warren Commission.

Chapter Thirty: "You got this phone tapped?"

The new president, LBJ, leaned on Hoover for intelligence and even used the FBI to spy on his political friends and enemies. He had Hoover investigate Barry Goldwater during the 1964 election, and got advise from Hoover on the sex scandal involving his aide, Walter Jenkins.

However, LBJ pressured Hoover to increase the work of the FBI in Mississippi after the murder of three civil rights workers. Hoover's men was able to infiltrate the Klu Klux Klan and Hoover set up the COINTELPRO-WHITE HATE to use the same tactics on the KKK the FBI used on Soviet spies. The bureau also broke the case of the murder of civil rights activist, Viola Liuzzo.

Chapter Thirty One: "The man I'm depending on"

LBJ relied on Hoover during the civil war in the Dominican Republic. The war erupted in April 1965, and LBJ sent in the Marines. However, he had to set up a government, and the only intelligence unit in the area at the time was the FBI and agent Wallace Estill. With Hoover's advice and background checks, LBJ picked Joaquin Balaguer to run against Juan Bosch. The U.S. backed Balaguer and won the election.

Chapter Thirty Two: Clearly illegal

By 1966, the war in Vietnam was in full-force, and so the anti-war protests were growing. Hoover felt the protestors were backed by Communists and he investigated them with microphones and taps. However, AG Nicholas Katzenbach told Hoover to get written approval for these techniques. Also, the Supreme Court ruled in Black v. U.S. that these techniques were unconstitutional. Hoover banned them and the FBI spy operation against the Soviets shut down. However, he still followed black power and anti-war leaders and with the help of the NSA and the U.S. Army, over 100,000 Americans were under surveillance. As 1968 approached, LBJ asked Hoover to investigate Congressional leaders and aides to see if they were leaking information to the Communists. In the spring, LBJ decided not to run for re-election, MLK and RFK were killed, and Columbia University was seized by students. The FBI started COINTELPRO-NEW LEFT to continue its investigation into leftist individuals. During the 1968 election, the FBI uncovered an apparent plot by Anna Chennault of the Nixon campaign to derail the cease-fire negotiations. When Nixon won the election, LBJ told Nixon he will need Hoover.

I never appreciated the obsession Hoover had with Martin Luther King. Do you agree it seems to fit with Hoover's pattern of thinking?

I just hate what a scapegoat communism serves to Hoover. Because of the cold war panic, all acts of indiscretion are called Communist and swept right off the table. I feel like we are experiencing a similar thing now with the Right accusing all of Obama's initiatives to be socialist just because they are social.

I suppose there is the proof with MLK that he was guided by a former member of the Communist party. But i'm so disgusted to what ends Hoover will go to discredit him. It all goes back to that adage: "crime is human, and the police are human."

Bryan wrote: "I never appreciated the obsession Hoover had with Martin Luther King. Do you agree it seems to fit with Hoover's pattern of thinking?"

I too did not appreciate Hoover's obsession with MLK.

It was however very interesting that throughout his life Hoover is depicted as the point man leading the charge to fight Communism yet when his lengthy career peaks he is being directed by the rather liberal trio of President Johnson, attorney general Ramsey Clark and deputy Warren Christopher to identify more enemies by increasing his spying efforts on U.S. citizens, and creating additional files (pg. 272).

You truly get a sense in these pages that LBJ did not like being president most of the time. His whole agenda was thrown off by his foreign policy, then you have the paranoia, which is part of his character.

Hoover seemed to tap into that very well.

Yes, if one person could deal with LBJ it would be Hoover, who certainly knew how to handle his former neighbor.

It certainly seemed that Hoover's enemies (JFK, MLK, RFK) were eliminated. Not that I'm saying conspiracy, but certainly things worked out in Hoover's favor, especially with Bobby. Also, amazed to read that Hoover was the person to break the news of JFK being shot to RFK? And he prefaces the conversation with I have news, not bad news. Cold.

Very cold, David, I'm sure he was not broken up inside.

Why do you think the Supreme Court stopped Hoover this time? In the past, he just circumvented the law? Was his FBI men correct: in your opinion, was he getting soft?

Another interesting aspect is what Hoover didn't do for civil rights. Do you think who was president played a role? It seems so, since once the Kennedy Administration had to act, Hoover dragged his feet. LBJ asked Hoover, Hoover acted against the KKK.

One of the things that amazes me about these last chapters is how little of what was going on behind the scenes was ever made public. It seems to me that we were controlled by such a small number of people during those heady times of the 60's. The miss reading of the Peace Movement being some kind of communist plot rather than a real desire to end the war was amazing. The government's stance against the left as being controlled by communist is amazing. It's like they all had on a set of blinders and could not see the dissatisfaction with the way the country was being run. The racist mind set of our leaders. Thinking that just because an organization did not share their vision of America then they must be out to destroy the government when all was really wanted was for the government to protect the rights they were guaranteed under the constitution. I hope I am not rambling. Wish I was better at getting my ideas from my brain to the page.

Bryan wrote: "Another interesting aspect is what Hoover didn't do for civil rights. Do you think who was president played a role? It seems so, since once the Kennedy Administration had to act, Hoover dragged h..."

Actually, I think LBJ just out politicked JEH. The man was the master manipulator, and Hoover knew when he was outplayed.

Clayton wrote: "One of the things that amazes me about these last chapters is how little of what was going on behind the scenes was ever made public. It seems to me that we were controlled by such a small number o..."

No apologies necessary, Clayton. The campaign against the New Left was not a shining moment in our history that is for sure. Truly, Hoover had blinders on.

G wrote: "Bryan wrote: "Another interesting aspect is what Hoover didn't do for civil rights. Do you think who was president played a role? It seems so, since once the Kennedy Administration had to act, Ho..."

LBJ was a master, no doubt. I think the circumstances might have been little different, too, you had more murders in the South, more pressure as time went on to do something. And LBJ stood more in the civil rights camp than JFK.

On page 235 (chapter 29) is says that JEH accused "King of a leading role in the Communist conspiracy against America."

JEH was so focused on Communism as the great evil...and on his own control and agenda...that he seemed incapable of hearing the message that MLK was proclaiming. It seems that most anything that came along creating some waves was quickly painted as being Communist and all efforts were taken to discredit it.

LBJ described JEH (page 240, chapter 30) as being "quiet and humble". Amazing words when we read about how he worked, manipulated, lambasted presidents and crushed opponents. I'm afraid the more I learn, the more cynical I become of politics...

It is interesting and intriguing to see how LBJ and JEH sparred and fenced... They seemed to be cut from the same cloth. Page 241 (chapter 31) says that LBJ "used the FBI as a political weapon in ways no president ever had done." They both seemed to have the attitude that anything and anyone was at their disposal to use to carry out their plans and desires. Seems to make a mockery of government for the people...

Page 244 (chapter 30) says that "LBJ knew how to twist Hoover's arm." LBJ seemed to be the one president who could used JEH's talents and abilities in ways that gave him a measure of control over JEH. Most of the presidents who served alongside JEH either feared, scorned, avoided, or accepted him (a little too easily, perhaps). But they never quite learned how to use and control JEH's powers and talents in the same way that LBJ was able to do.

Page 263 (chapter 31) tells us that "Hoover had helped install a government led by an FBI informant..." Whatever noble intentions we may have, when we start to interfere in and manipulate the affairs of other nations, the long term result is generally that we become more hated and prone to be attacked, and instability, fear, and war loom on the horizon.

Lewis wrote: "Page 244 (chapter 30) says that "LBJ knew how to twist Hoover's arm." LBJ seemed to be the one president who could used JEH's talents and abilities in ways that gave him a measure of control over J..."

Good point, Lewis. I think FDR knew how to use Hoover, but not to the extent LBJ did. By letting Hoover loose on his political enemies, it set a dangerous precedent.

The office of the president began its "negative descent" during this time period.

I wonder who needed who more in this LBJ-Hoover relationship?

Lewis wrote: "Page 263 (chapter 31) tells us that "Hoover had helped install a government led by an FBI informant..." Whatever noble intentions we may have, when we start to interfere in and manipulate the affai..."

You know, I didn't know much about Dominican Republic until now. This episode really shows how weak our intelligence community was in this matter.

Yes, it seems the U.S. is hated more when we interfere with other nation states. LBJ did have good intentions, but it left messes.

What I don't understand is how can a bureau in the Justice Department have been such an influencer in foreign affairs to the point where they were able to put in a new puppet head of state? It seems truly wrong and illogical.

This is clearly a case of where checks and balances didn't just fail, but jumped out the window and ran away hiding.

Misty, this leads to a question: was the FBI really an influence in foreign affairs, or was it just a unique situation in the Dominican Republic that the only person who had intelligence was an FBI agent?

You really get a sense that the walls are closing in on Hoover. With the Black vs. U.S. Court case, Hoover backs off. But, LBJ needs more information as the Left pressures him on Vietnam and riots erupt. It is startling that over 100,000 Americans were under surveillance.

I think from these chapters forward, the book is getting somewhat harder to read for me. Basically because the greatest historic knowledge we have is through our own lifetime where the understanding of context is greatest. It also becomes, for the purposes of discussion, the area where keeping politics out of the conversation becomes the hardest.

I think again with the student protests and fear of communist spying we see Hoover as he's been since he came to power. He maybe correct on the fringes, but in order to prove his limited point he leaves a wake of disaster and a shredded constitution is left rotting behind.

I have been impressed with this book how it's obvious as a reader that the push/pull of security versus individual rights is an elusive target and that over doing one causes the permeant loss of the other.

On a side note, my mouth fell open when I read about an FBI informant being in a car which drove up and murdered two people.

Bryan wrote: "Misty, this leads to a question: was the FBI really an influence in foreign affairs, or was it just a unique situation in the Dominican Republic that the only person who had intelligence was an FBI..."

The DR certainly is a very big story, but keep in mind that during WW2, the FBI was, however poorly, involved in international espionage as opposed to domestic work, so we do have to wonder if there is more to the record that we don't yet have access to that would indicate a greater foreign affairs influence.

I just looked at Wikipedia's DR page, and sadly, they make no mention of the FBIs involvement in the first "democratic" elections. Does anyone know how new this information is? I think most, if not all of us, had no idea of this aspect of DRs history.

It was new to me, Misty.

Rodney wrote: "I think from these chapters forward, the book is getting somewhat harder to read for me. Basically because the greatest historic knowledge we have is through our own lifetime where the understandi..."

I understand, Rodney. We are now moving into events that we lived through and it is harder.

I suppose there is compromise in the tug of war, and we have to decide how far to go in one certain direction. It is tough.

Bryan wrote: "Rodney wrote: "I think from these chapters forward, the book is getting somewhat harder to read for me. Basically because the greatest historic knowledge we have is through our own lifetime where ..."

Yes, that is exactly true. This book just confirms all the things those of us in college at the time thought about LBJ and Nixon but only had news reports to go by. So I am not surprised, just saddened. I am not entirely sure why the SCOTUS started holding the line about then, though, apparently causing the FBI to be more circumspect.

Yeah, this was Earl Warren's court, which proved to be more liberal than some thought it would be.

I get the impression that there were quite a bit of "individual liberty" and privacy cases like Miranda and Griswold.

Misty, ENEMIES reports on the 1965 Dominican Republic episode in detail for the first time.

Folks, don't fail to interrogate me directly in the Q and A!

I'm still laughing with disbelief that Hoover considered the permission, granted him by FDR, to wiretap at will still valid in 1966 (p. 265).

I think JEH's sense of time was warped by all those decades in charge. Has any other American ever been in as powerful a position for so long? The only person I can think of is Alan Greenspan, and even leaving out Hoover's tenure as head of the BOI, Greenspan was only Chairman of the Fed for about half as long as Hoover was the Director of the FBI.

Phil wrote: "I'm still laughing with disbelief that Hoover considered the permission, granted him by FDR, to wiretap at will still valid in 1966 (p. 265).

I think JEH's sense of time was warped by all those d..."

Yeah, I guess if it the only "authorization" you have, you cling to it. But the man was living in denial with the law telling him that it illegal.

In these cases, would you agree that term limits might be a good thing?