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I dont seen pornography but I do see some passages that could be taken as sexual provocative especially for the time the book was written. I started last night. I really like what I read. I suggested this book many time and I am glad it made it finally. I did find it an easy read as others have said and I also want to know what happens next.

Meg you are really doing well pace wise. :)

I had a nice four day weekend and spent a good chunk of it reading and I'm about 87% done. I couldn't put the book down I kept wanting to find out what happened next! I'm now struggling to finish it. Not that it's bad but it's a bit much! I love the background of the story and how it's pretty historically accurate. Most of the characters did exist and if you read the blurbs on Wikipedia about them it's dead on in the book (well with some liberties), its also fun to see what these people really looked like.

I wouldn't consider the book at all erotic but it's must have been pretty sensational in the 40's.

Wow, Forever Amber -- I read and loved this book when I was a teenager, but had totally forgotten about it! I WISH I had more time to read, as would love to join this discussion.

Aw too bad Meg, this promises to be an interesting discussion.

Well we are finally starting discussing this novel. I must say it is quite an easy and fast read which I am thankful for.

So my first question, I am assuming we are all hooked. At what point did you become hooked and why do you think so?

I'm not sure I would call myself "hooked" but I do love that it is an easy fast read. I am amused by Amber and her antics, though I am hoping she will mature as the book proceeds. I am also enjoying the historical nature of the book. I have not read much about England during this time, so am finding the history lesson enjoyable.

I thought the writing style was rather enjoyable. Her diction is so refreshing for historical fiction, which can often be so daunting and so hard to digest. I also like the author's complete honesty, for example...when Almsbury tells Amber that she would be more offended if he hadn't wanted to sleep with her. That made me laugh and then think...hmmm that's kind of true.

Wow ladies! I just finished the book! If there was a sequel I would immediately download it! I hope everyone is enjoying it as much as I did

I have to admit that I got hooked right away, about the time she went off with Carlton at the fair. I said to myself boy her naivete is going to get her into a lot of trouble. I knew then that this was going to be a fun read.

What hooks you when you read a novel in general?

Did you think Carlton would leave her the way he did? Did you think when she got married that she was being set up?

I was hooked right away by the coflict between families. Amber's is a bit dramatic and her naivety makes me fearful for her. Aren't we all suckers for drama, gossip, and scandal? I think conflict set up right away makes a good a story and for things to happen. I also love the description of the culture as far as architecture, landscape and fashion. It's fascinating what the changes where and how the tides of the monarchy influenced them. I wasnt surprised with what happened between Carlton and Amber. Amber seems to be to eager to have it all and to have it all at once. The phrase that London would eat a pretty girl up has been mentioned several times. I am guessing it will be important to the novel.

I was hooked at about the same point in the novel as you were, Meg. When Amber went off with Bruce after the fair, I knew we were in for a rather wild ride. I too loved the historical backdrop and found myself googling some of the historic characters to determine how closely the novel followed facts. In many of the big events it did.

I especially love Amber as a character. Even when you think she is incredibly naive or does something ridiculous, she is just fascinating. I also was completely hooked and intrigued by the notion of a girl/woman with Amber's spunk and romanticism who is caught in an era that was both confining and made her easy prey for men, such as the likes of her husband.

I am not such a fan of Bruce Carlton's as I think readers are intended to be.

If you remember, the family that Amber lived with before she ran away was a poor farming couple. At one point they were talking about how they should tell Amber someday about the fact that she came from an upper class family. I wonder if she will ever find this out and how that will play into her fate?

I am curious about Bruce's relationship with Barbara. Did I miss something or do we not get more information about why he's in the carriage with her?

That's interesting Meg. So much is going on...oh that naive, man and money obsessed Amber.

And another quote:

The novel came out in England in 1945. While English women were weeping over Celia Johnson's stoic portrayal of sexual renunciation in Brief Encounter they were also bonding over the bawdy, upwardly-mobile Amber St Clare. Forever Amber was published at a time of social upheaval in Britain, the beginnings of the welfare state and the erosion of an ethic of social and marital deference. Divorce petitions skyrocketed during the war, rising from 9,970 in 1938 to 24,857 in 1945. Moreover, Winsor's readers, the majority of them women, identified with Amber's calamitous life and admired her fortitude in times of hardship. The great fire of London would have seemed familiar to those who had had lived through the blitz. The random nature of plague would ring true for those who had lived with the constant fear of buzzbombs and V2 rockets.

Organisations such as the British Housewives' League suggested a new militancy about the housewife's role, and Forever Amber offered an alternative to Mrs Miniver, dressed in a tight bodice and a lacy shift. Winsor's descriptions of Amber's clothes are marvels of fashion pornography that must have seemed even more illicit in the days of rationing and austerity; at a society raffle, Amber wears a gown of cloth-of-gold, an emerald velvet cloak lined in sable, with a spray of emeralds pinned to her sable muff. Her glamour gave women on the home front an intoxicating sense of adventure and action. The novel is a celebration of London - "London," Winsor writes, "stinking dirty noisy brawling colourful - was the heart of England, and its citizens ruled the nation." She captures the look, sound, smell, and idiom of the court, the slums, the brothel, the salon, the theatre, the coffee-house.

I'm behind on the reading right now, but know I will catch up quickly. Meg, I love all of the trivia and facts about this novel!! So funny.

Amber is driving me crazy for the most part (I'm only at the part where she is in debtor's prison though), but I'm hooked!

Meg I appreciate the quote. I felt like there was more behind the women staring at Amber when she attended the theatre. Winsor has really captured everything about the court which I appreciate and enjoy so much.

Meg - great book description/review. Really captures the interesting aspects of the novel and its relationship to the time in which it was written. Thanks for sharing.

This book reminds me of one of my favorite quotes:

You never know how strong a woman is until she gets into hot water - Eleanor Roosevelt

what do you think?

That about sums up Amber. Well, maybe not how strong she is, but who she is willing to sleep with.

Meg wrote: "Did you think Carlton would leave her the way he did? Did you think when she got married that she was being set up?"

I was not surprised that Carlton left her like he did. He was honest with he from the get-go. I was also suspicious of the woman from the beginning, and suspected that something less than honorable was going on there.

Sheila wrote: "Meg wrote: "Did you think Carlton would leave her the way he did? Did you think when she got married that she was being set up?"

I was not surprised that Carlton left her like he did. He was hones..."

I agree, I knew that Carlton would stay true to his original intention and leave her. It was her own fault for not following his directions about the money. That would have protected her from her awful "husband". It was so obvious that she was being set up and Amber just seems so helpless at times, I could scream. I'm looking forward to seeing her become stronger as the book moves on....

Her lies and not following the directions are bound to have gotten her in trouble. She does admit to her eagerness which made me glad. I want to grab her and say "Get strong girl". :) The crying and wishing are making me scream for sure. I think the fact that she does admit her eagerness makes me hopeful for her becoming more confident as time goes on.

So should I amp up the reading schedule since this book is easy to read? Let me know what y'all think

I am fine either way. Am finished but can also constrain comments to avoid spoilers.

I prefer the current schedule, mainly because I am reading several other books also.

Meg wrote: "So should I amp up the reading schedule since this book is easy to read? Let me know what y'all think"
I am on page 750ish and I am thinking about taking a little break to read something else. So the current schedule works for me.

Same as Sheila for me.

Current schedule is good for me - I don't have as much time to read in the summer as I do other times of the year.

A bit late to the discussion, but that is par for the course with me. LOL

So, I finally read the assignment for this week and have mixed reactions to the story. I am loving the historical details. The writing style is easy and allows the story to come through without being overshadowed by literary tricks.

But, I really dislike Amber. She is selfish and self-centered. She runs off with no thought to the pain and sorrow it will cause her foster family. They are not mean people; she is not abused or deprived. But, despite the goodness with which she is treated, she gives no concern to how her actions will impact others. She toys with Tommy and Billy. She has no intension of marrying either, but she leads both on for her own amusement. She uses her sexuality to get what she wants, a chance to see the world, to have pretty things, for enjoyment, but never as a self gift of love. She cringes with indignation when she thinks people are regarding her as a prostitute, but that is exactly what she is doing. Carolton is honest with her from the beginning. He discourages her from coming with him. He tells her all along that he is moving on. But, she tries to trick him into staying with her pregnancy and tries to emotionally blackmale him with her fits. She does not care what he wants or what is good for him; it is all about her and her alone. She is 17 years old, not 7 years old. In 1660, girls already had 2 or 3 kids by this age. So, we can't blame her behavior on inevitable attitudes of her age or as a knee-jerk reaction to a brutal childhood. She seems motivated by the deadly sins and by no virtue at all. There is vanity, lust, anger, pride, greed, etc. I would not trust Amber with my pet rock. And, she refuses to take responsibility for anything. Everyone else is responsible for all that gos wrong in her life. Had she been less arrogant and obeyed the foster parents who appeared to love her and treated her well, she would have been enjoying all that is good about country life. Had she obeyed the instructions of Carolton and given the money to the banker, it would not have been stolen. Had she not been a liar in every relationship, she would have not been swindled by Luke.

This book is reminding me of Moll Flanders. But, I had a little more sympathy for Moll.

Interesting take on Amber. She is self centered but I think that is her survival skill. I am surprised you have such sympathy for Carlton he is the one that I dislike. I find Carlton more self centered. I think one of the things I like about Amber is that she is so feisty and resiliant. Sure she does what she wants but she bounces back from all of her mistakes. I made quite a lot at 17 so I am not surprised with her impulsiveness.
How about the rest of you?

That is funny Irene. I liked Carlton too. He was honest with her from the get-go. I don't fault him at all for sailing off. I was impressed that he gave her as much money as he did. She seemed to be trying to use him, hoping to get pregnant.

I wonder if we will see Carlton again?

I started the book over the weekend, and I'm already about 250 pages in. Everyone is right, it's a fast read for a chunky. I'm tempering it with some other reading, though, because a little Amber goes a long way.

I also wonder if or when Amber will find out about her true parentage. I can't help but think it's going to pop up sooner or later. I'm not all that disturbed by Amber's way of surviving; life at that time was incredibly harsh for women. What turns me off is her wild emotion, "I love him, I hate him, I love him!" I don't have much patience for that, but suppose I saw plenty of it in my teenage daughters (although I'm sure I was much more mature, lol.)

I'm also pretty amused by the uproar at the time of publication. Boy wouldn't those reviewers be shocked by what's available on Amazon these days (especially in e-books.)

I agree with Meg. There were so few choices for a young woman like Amber. Carlton was older and knew it would be her ruin - one impulsive, ridiculous decision on her part and it could be her ruin forever. The choices were so much more constrained and the cost of a bad decision so much greater during the time. I think Amber was using the only tools she had. Carlton was older, and I think he could and should have resisted. Yes, he was honest and gave her a sizable amount of money, but even if she hadn't lost her money and had "followed" his direction, I think her life would be a wreck. She couldn't go back, she couldn't marry. I can't think what she could do.

I agree that her marriage to Luke was prompted by the limitations of her situation, unwed and pregnant in 1660. My problem with Amber begins way back. I think the way she acted at home in her little town told me more about her basic character than her response to her pregnancy. If it were my niece or maybe one of our teen aged daughters who ran off with a guy she met at the mall or a small town carnival without as much as a note or a good bye, the pain would be incredible. She ailenates herself from all the other young women of her town. She uses people. Taking off with that total stranger, having sex the first time she meets him, these are not even considered appropriate behaviors in our far more progressive culture today, let alone in 1660. I do agree that Carolton should have been a bit more restrained. He should have said to this teenager with stars in her eyes, "Go home to your family". But, it is obvious that he comes from a very different background where girls were a bit more morally loose and able to fend for themselves. And, he exceeds the expectation of society to a man of his position.

Section Two Reading:
This section of reading gave you more of a glimpse of London than Part I did. I was particularly interested in prison life and how one survived. Amber is no dummy and she sure has the survival things. Are you more sympathetic to her now? What do you think of the new characters that are introduced in the section? Do you think that Amber is doomed?

Certainly do not think Amber is doomed. There are far too many more chapters in this book for that. LOL

Well, the 2 thoughts I had while reading this were...
1. Didn't I read this in Moll Flanders?
2. Amber is becoming the sort of person she looked down on in Part 1. If I look at Amber and admire her for being a survivor, than do I give the same credit to Sally and Luke? Is there any difference between Sally and Luke preying on a vulnerable victim in Amber to rob her and Amber and Black Jack preying on lonely, vulnerable people, asulting them and robbing them? Sally and Luke, Amber and Black Jack are all surviving in a society with no social safety net for those who fall into poverty, whether by their own poor choices or by war or by disaster or by the death of a spouse or personal injury.

Bleeding heart than I am, I felt bad for everyone in this section. I found it fascinating but just awful all at once.

You are right Irene she is when she see Bess. I giggled when she finally got her bath and bathed and was presented a gown and then it didn't fit. I am finding some comedic relief in this section too from Mother Red cap. Speaking of I am guessing there must be some significance to the colors of the chracters being named. I am grateful the tide turned a bit more from Amber in this section with a cast of very colorful characters. Irene and then she makes friends with prostitute Penelope Hill. I was very confused.

I was surprised that someone found her worthy of being educated by Michael Godfrey. And yeah she finally gave up Gemeni and Laud but the. They are drinking and he is telling her stories of stripping a women naked. The irony in this novel is amazing.

I can understand the awful too Sandi.

Irene, you always make me laugh. (too many chapters to go for her to be doomed!)

This was a very interesting section. There is certainly lots of action for Amber in this book if nothing else. I would think that Black Jack getting hung would scare some sense into Amber, but for some reason I think she is going to get herself into a lot more scrapes.

Am I sympathetic to her? No, not really. I still think she needs to grow up and take some responsibility for her own actions.

I think it is hard for her because at every turn there is Jack Black or Michael Godfrey to her rescue. This section a shootout, cat fight, a near escape.

Amber seemed rather unmoved by the death of her lover, Black Jack. She seems simply relieved that it was not her, not upset that her lover died and she ran off and left him to get caught. Another stroke in the column of self-absorbsion for her.

On another note, I like the way Barbara's royal life is paralleling Amber's life on the streets. I have started the reading for the coming week and the parallel is continuing.

I think Amber only has enough room in her heart for Bruce. It one of those things that you love the one thing/person that you cannot have.

So, if she can only love Bruce, does she not love Black Jack or Michael or any of the subsequent guys I suspect will show up? And, if she does not love them, what is her relationship with them? Is she using them? I can't imagine a heart so small that it can only love one person. I think that we do not love all people the same way, but we still love them. One does not have to have the starry-eyed infatuation of first love for someone to be really upset to see them exicuted, especially when you escaped and they did not.

BTW, she has been wit Michael for several months, but we have not heard anything more about her son. I suspect that maybe she is afraid to go to see him because she does not want to get caught. If that is the case, wouldn't a mother be heart-broken at being torn from her new born? I'm not a mother, have never given birth, so maybe I am wrong. Maybe my assumptions are based on too many sweet novels. But, I thought maybe this child would provoke some tenderness that would pull her beyond herself, but Iam surprised not to have the child mentioned.

I guess I am not sure about Amber's love either. She seems to be more concerned about the competition of the other women and not letting them get in her way which in a way is healthy but doe she care more about the chase and infatuation of love more than love at least right now?

Do you think once bitten, twice shy applies to Amber?

And what the heck does Im fretting my bowels to fiddle-strings over you, mean?

I think Amber is an expert on using her one best resource, her beauty. She goes from one man to another in order to survive. It may not be our way but her way seems to work for her. Carlton is the one person that she can't control and therefore he is the one person that she really wants. I think once she has her way the man becomes her meal ticket and she loses respect for him.

It does bother me that she has very little interest in her son. It is more of an example of what type of person she truly is.

Is it hard for everyone to develop any positive feelings towards Amber? Do you have strong negative feelings? An author is considered a good author if strong feelings towards their characters are developed. Is the author successful in her character development?

Meg wrote: "I think Amber is an expert on using her one best resource, her beauty. She goes from one man to another in order to survive. It may not be our way but her way seems to work for her. Carlton is t..."

Meg, I agree with this. I keep thinking about Scarlet in Gone With The Wind. They seem like similar characters to me at this point.

Meg wrote: "Is it hard for everyone to develop any positive feelings towards Amber? Do you have strong negative feelings? An author is considered a good author if strong feelings towards their characters are..."

I'm having strong negative feelings towards Amber - most definitely. I'm ahead on the reading and can't wait to comment more about this in the next section's discussion!