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Sheila wrote: Does this girl have no morals, no decency, no ethics?

Is it that or is it just that she has amazing survival skills for that period in history?

I also think the era was one in which there were no morals. I think his court is considered debaucherous by any standards.

And, her greed for more and more of the inheritance is not without victims. In scheming for a greater proportion of the family estate, she is cheating the rightful heirs out of their share. This is a large family. The pot will already be pretty well divided. I see this as beyond survival. As the wife here, she would be receiving a third of the estate, more than enough to live on. Had she married Rex, she would have had more than enough for survival. She has had many opportunities for comfort, starting with her childhood home and village. None of it is enough for her.

Yes, there does seem to be much immorality depicted, but this is a small sliver of society we are seeing. It contrasts with the Puritan rule just prior.

Meg wrote: "Is it that or is it just that she has amazing survival skills for that period in history?"

I guess that is all up to the interpretation of the reader. :-)

For me, personally, (others can take this with a grain of salt) I just think she is a greedy little evil, conniving, despicable, selfish, money-grubbing hussy. LOL
I certainly would not want to be friends with her. She could have invested the money she got from Carlton in the beginning, done something to occupy her time (theater or something else), lived off the money, and since she apparently is so infatuated with only him, she could have just waiting for him to come home, slept with him when he did (and I'm sure he would have given her more money each time), and lived happily and well on that. But no, that wasn't good enough for her, and she was too stupid to invest the money like he told her too, which I don't consider good survival skills. So since she is stupid (in my opinion) off she goes with her life of trying to grub money from other men, with no care for the casualties she leaves in her wake.

What do you think of her Meg? If you see another side, please share! I'd love to find something to like about this character.

I think some of her bad character is changing a bit. I think she actually realized that she had strong feelings for Rex and had some remorse. She didn't have that with any other men. Things change more during the plague, which is your upcoming reading. I am still not convinced that this was somewhat part of her survival skills. Once she ended up in prison she could have just given up but she rose to the occasion and got out of a situation most people never survived.

No she wouldn't be my friend, but I might be fascinated in watching her!

I wonder if any of the characters are people with whom I'd want to be friends? Not sure any would be close friends, but I do appreciate people who break with social norms.

I would have been friends with Rex, Almsbury and probably Nan. I am finding I like Nan the more I am reading about her.

We are now starting to read about the plague, I found this section of the story made me like Amber for a bit even though she puts Carlton above all others.

I finished the reading assignment for this week and agree that this showed some selflessness for the first time. Of course, it is still not exactly virtuous since it is still about her Bruce and no one else. I find her mothering abominable. She would have kept her baby in Plague central had Nan not forced the issue with her hysteria. And, she has not inquired once about her son.

But Amber loved Carlton so much. I thought this section was really moving... Carlton literally was the passion of her life. I thought it was such a defining moment.

I agree I think it showed that she can be a totally devoted and caring person, it gave me hope.

I finished this week's reading and agree that Amber, for once, showed some selflessness. But I agree with Irene that it is sad that she still showed no compassion or worry for her children.

I had a hard time with a number of things as the book progressed. I started to wonder if Amber really was a horrible mom, or if the author just didn't bother to develop that part of her character and was more focused on the love story. I felt like she did spend some time with character and plot development, but it seemed like a lot of really important things like her relationship with her children were glossed over. There were some plot items and some foreshadowing that would have been so rich if it had actually been developed properly. I also started to feel like this was poorly developed Gone With the Wind fan fiction...almost in the same vein as 50 Shades because I began to see a lot of parallels with some Gone With the Wind characters. I devoured 50 Shades because I wanted to know what happened next, and I did the same with Forever Amber so there must have been something that kept me coming back. After having all of these thoughts I read on wikipedia that the original manuscript was 5x what we ended up with and that made me think that maybe this wasn't a case of poor writing/author neglect but rather that of poor editing. Maybe the editors were focused on sex and sensationalism and in the process didn't read very carefully and chopped out important parts of the story. I would love to get my hands on the other 4/5ths!

This book was originally 5 times longer?!? GACK! LOL

Five times longer! Thank our lucky stars for editors! This is not saying anything that could not be said in much fewer words by a far more skilled writer.

I think the length relates to capturing all the history of King Charles return and his court.

Interesting comments on the shortening of the book. Perhaps the editors didn't think it added to the story line in humanizing Amber more, especially in the area of being a mother. If there were more times she had with her children would your attitude towards her be different? Also, didn't you soften at all with her during the plague? I felt it softened her quite a bit but made Carlton more of a villian. any thoughts?

I probably would like Amber more if she had been shown having more concern for her children. The plague did show a more human side of her, though I can't say I like her yet. LOL

My opinion of Amber and of Bruce did not change during the plague. I thought both were consistant with who they have been throughout the book. She cares for him while treating the nurse like a rat. People don't treat stray cats like she treated the nurse. He cared for her just as attentively and continued with the life he wanted. If she knew that her care for Bruce would not change his mind about marrying her, would she have cared for him? I can't tell. She always seems to have an ulterior motive. And, he is not going to be emotionally blackmaled or conned into marryin her.

I feel like I am reading to catch up on Ambers drama again.

Is it really possible for one girl, who is still in her early twenties, to get herself into as many situations and varied relationships as this girl is getting herself into?!? LOL Sheesh, Amber!

Yes, this thing is about as plausible as a Batman Comic.

Does it bother you that the author is an American?

How are people reacting to the plot changes unfolding in this week's assignment? Amber has married a man who does not love her, but only wants her money. She married him because she wants his title, but she does not love him. They are equally cold and cunning. We have spent time with Amber, so does knowing her make you more sympathetic to her plight? Or, does her background of cunning, poisoning, deceit, affairs, etc make you glad to see her finally encounter a match for her? Personally, I am glad to see her meet with someone who is a moral match for her. Both have ulterior motives and neither worries who they will hurt in the process of getting their goals. Frankly, I was surprised that Amber's supposed friend would match her with this obviously self-serving cold man. Amber has gone through life believing that, because she was lucky enough to have above average looks, the world owes her everything and the rules of morality that govern the rest of society do not apply to her. I am glad that she has finally encountered a man that is not enslaved by her sex-appeal.

Meg wrote: "Does it bother you that the author is an American?"

Not at all. It is historical fiction, so I don't think she needs to be British to write a book in a historical British setting. Everything historical would need to be researched no matter who, or what nationality, the writer.

Irene, I will admit that it was amusing to see Amber get married to someone for his title, and then to learn that he was only after her for her money. But then again, the first guy she married, when she was pregnant with her son, was only after her for her her money too. Maybe Amber "thinks" that it is her looks that attract men to her, but maybe men are only after her for other things.

Rex and Dangerfield and Bruce and Black Jack were after her for her looks or her sexuality. Luke and this guy want her money. Luke was stupid and a coward, so ran as soon as he could. This guy is as immoral and ruthless as Amber. I have to say, it is a bit more interesting to have the balance of power a bit more equal. However, I have no doubt that Amber will prevail. All she has to do is knock this old fart off, make it look like an accident,and voila! I have no doubt she is capable of murder.

Did anyone pick up that this newest husband is also likely her father?

No!!!!!!! how did you get that???

Ooh, ick! No, I never got that impression, but if so, thankfully he is impotent!

No, I saw nothing in what was read for this week's discussion that hinted at a previous connection. Is there something in later chapters that gives that impression or did I miss something? In the prologue, her father was described as a terrific romantic guy who just happened to be of the wrong religion and therefore the wrong side of the political battles raging. He was definitely not a greedy, gambling woman-hater.

O, and he was also young, maybe mid-20s, far closer in age to Amber than this guy is.

And whatever happened to her real mother? I was hoping she was going to show up, or maybe she was Barbara!

I wonder if the prologue in my book was not in every edition. I had a prologue that began my volume. I can't recall the names of the people right now and I don't have the book in front of me. But, there is a young girl, I think about 17. She wants to marry this young man; they grew up together. Both are from well-off families, but one is Protestant and the other is Catholic. When war breaks out, he goes to fight and her parents forbid the marriage. They arrange another. But, the two young people sneak off for an amourous encounter during which she becomes pregnant. She runs away from home and follows her lover where he arranges housing for her until he is back from war. While he is away, she delivers. The women of the village believe they are married and attend to her. But, she bleeds to death after delivering a little girl she names Amber, after the color of his eyes. Sarah is one of the women attending to her difficult birth.

Irene - that is exactly the same as my prologue. I made a mistake. Radclyffe is the man her grandfather wanted her mother (Judith) to marry. Judith wants to marry mainwarring (sp), but her father wants her to marry the Earl of Radclyff, who is a 35 year old widower with one son. Judith gets dies during childbirth with Amber and neither her lover or her family ever knew where to find her, so Amber is never claimed.

There is a passage where Radclyff talks about his one true love from many years ago. I mistakenly thought he was Judith's lover and father. He was the "arranged" fiancée.

If you're reading an electric copy, search for Radclyff. Hard copy - check the prologue, not sure what pages.

Ok that is what I have too

Ok, so the old guy Radclyffe that Amber is now married to was "supposed" to marry Amber's mother, but Amber's mother got pregnant by a guy named John and ran off? Is that what this is telling us now?

Sheila wrote: "Ok, so the old guy Radclyffe that Amber is now married to was "supposed" to marry Amber's mother, but Amber's mother got pregnant by a guy named John and ran off? Is that what this is telling us now?"

Yes, I think so. That is what I thought. This is the man that Amber's mother was going to have an arranged marriage with once she was no longer allowed to marry John.

Thank you. I had forgotten the name of that guy the parents picked out and would not have connected the dots had you not drawn my attention to that.

I would have missed this whole connection too, Irene, if not for this discussion! So much had happened with Amber in this book I had completely forgot about the prologue and the names and details in it.

Me too! So the woman that died that he loved and was supposed to marry was Amber's mother? Wow I totally missed that connection.

In the chapters assigned to be read this week and discussed next, I saw where he tells Amber that that young woman ran off and was never heard from again. He has been looking for this woman ever since and that Amber had reminded him of her when they met. But he has come to realize that the resemblance is only superficial and he is finally convinced that the woman is dead.

It was interesting that they wore almost the same size. It doesn't seem to bother Amber that she knows absolutely nothing about her family.

Yes, and the wedding dress that he gave her to wear was meant for his wedding to her mother.

I was surprised that he had the dress. I would have expected it to have stayed with the bride's parents, not the intended groom. I did not get the feel of passionate love on the part of this fiance in the prologue. Of course, it is focused on the bride who wants no part in this marriage.

I think I disliked like him most of all. But, part of me was happy that Amber was getting a taste of her own medicine.

But, she ended up in a better position that ever. She is one lucky person in her pursuit.

I finished the book. I just could not spend 3 more weeks with such an immoral character. The thing that struck me for this week's reading was what an absolute bully Amber is. The way she exploits the insecurities of this newest husband is worse than any 6th grader bully on the play ground. And, what keeps Big John so loyal? He seems to go beyond the loyalty demanded of a servant to have a personal loyalty to her. Nan I can understand. Her fortunes are intimately tied up with Amber's. As Amber has improved, so has Nan's fortunes, now a Lady in Waiting in the royal court wearing silks and having significant boyfriends. But, Big John seems to get nothing out of it. He seems to be not much more than a big slobbering obedient dog.

I decided not to finish this book. Usually I find I have to finish any book I start. The fact that Amber never progress is just to depressing and annoying for me. I dont find that I want to pick it up and during my moveI just haven't found the time. I hope others enjoy.

I understand Rebecca, I finished the book I think part of me just wanted to get it over with. How things have changed literary wise since the 40's. I think this book was written to be whimsical and just to get away from the depressing world war.

I'm caught up for the week, but have to admit I am glad there is only a week left on this one. I am starting to get tired of Amber's antics. I am enjoying the history lesson of the time of Charles II. I've googled many of the historical characters from this story and have learned quite a bit of what is in this about the court and people of this time is accurate. Amber's fictional story though is reading like a soap opera for me. So this is basically historical fiction with a completely fictional main character?

yes it is interesting how she weaved the historical pieces in the story. I think this would be a a good beach read at best. However, the ending is surprising.