Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ

Rachel wrote: "Kristina wrote: "I'm not Christian, so I'm terribly bad at picking up biblical themes in books...I never even figured out the Narnia connection on my own! (And I read them when I was in college.) E..."

Okay, so I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but I think it's important to note that it's perfectly reasonable to be both an open-minded person and a little wary about this task. There is a difference between reading a book with religious characters and reading a book with religious themes. Yes, they are both potentially horizon-expanding and therefore good. However, the later also has to potential to be uncomfortably proselytizing. I suppose it depends on how narrow the the range of acceptable books is.

Katie wrote: "Rachel wrote: "Okay, so I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but I think it's important to note that it's perfectly reasonable to be both an open-minded person and a little wary about this task. There is a difference between reading a book with religious characters and reading a book with religious themes. Yes, they are both potentially horizon-expanding and therefore good. However, the later also has to potential to be uncomfortably proselytizing. I suppose it depends on how narrow the the range of acceptable books is. "

Well said.

Katie wrote: "Rachel wrote: "Kristina wrote: "I'm not Christian, so I'm terribly bad at picking up biblical themes in books...I never even figured out the Narnia connection on my own! (And I read them when I was..."

Katie, that is an excellent point and very reasonably said.

Sam wrote: "April wrote: "Well what time is it in KS? It's 7:40 pm in NY. I should know KS's timezone, but I don't.

Again, I'm not trying to be offensive, I just am curious about that book. :-) I mean it's no..."

Well, along the lines of fiction, if I use the dictionary.com definition of fiction:
–n´Ç³Ü²Ô
1.the class of literature comprising works of imaginative narration, esp. in prose form.
2.works of this class, as novels or short stories: detective fiction.
3.something feigned, invented, or imagined; a made-up story: We've all heard the fiction of her being in delicate health.
4.the act of feigning, inventing, or imagining.
5.an imaginary thing or event, postulated for the purposes of argument or explanation.
6.Law. an allegation that a fact exists that is known not to exist, made by authority of law to bring a case within the operation of a rule of law.

The case could be made for that particular book as fiction, but again, as El says so succinctly, it's all in interpretation.

Which we won't know until Julie clarifies. (I am loving the discussion here, however.)

I like how it hasn't evolved into an attack-fest.

April wrote: "I like how it hasn't evolved into an attack-fest."

I don't think there's anything worth attacking, per se. We're all just looking for some clarification... before we attack. J/K. :)

I wonder if the Anne of Green Gables books would work. Anne (along with pretty much every other character) is very much a church-going Christian, and there is a lot of talk about prayer and Sunday school and being a good Christian throughout the entire series. I love those books, and never feel like I'm being preached at (and I'm not a Christian) - all the main characters are just very sincere in their beliefs, in a noncontroversial way that is a bit quaint in this day and age.

El wrote: "Rachel wrote: "Kristina wrote: "I'm not Christian, so I'm terribly bad at picking up biblical themes in books...I never even figured out the Narnia connection on my own! (And I read them when I was..."

I certainly never meant to imply that anyone on this forum has said "I refuse!" I only mentioned it because in looking to the future, imagining the paths this thread could take, one possible outcome could be someone eventually refusing. As far as the potential of Christian fiction to be proselytizing, I think the same can be said for genre that has a strong viewpoint. I think the fact that Christian fiction is pro-Christian is to be expected, no?

As far as using books of the Bible such as Job for this task goes, I would guess that, based on Julie's statement that she is a Christian, she would not allow it as "fiction". She might allow it if she rewords her task to be "Christian literature", however.

In the end, though, we can't figure out exactly what Julie meant for her task until she resurfaces. It could be she's like my mom, who checks the boards once every few days at most. :)

Oh, also, I was talking to my mom about this task, and she mentioned that there is a Christian Fiction shelf here on Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ if anyone was looking for an idea: http://www.goodreads.com/shelf/show/c...

Also, she is a big of fan of Beverly Lewis' Amish books, such as The Covenant, which she says are not preachy at all. I haven't read them myself, so I can't personally testify to them.

Sam wrote: "Yes, but the challenge is for Christian Fiction. I think most of us would agree that the Book of Job is literature. But fiction?"

Mythology of every ilk are generally regarded as non-fiction.

There are however a number of books based on the Book of Job which are fiction, such as Job A Comedy of Justice and The Book of Joby

Greyweather wrote: "Sam wrote: "Yes, but the challenge is for Christian Fiction. I think most of us would agree that the Book of Job is literature. But fiction?"

Mythology of every ilk are generally regarded as non-f..."
I did not know that, thanks for the clarification :-)

* Main Entry: myth
* Pronunciation: \ˈmith\
* Function: noun
* Etymology: Greek mythos
* Date: 1830

1 a : a usually traditional story of ostensibly historical events that serves to unfold part of the world view of a people or explain a practice, belief, or natural phenomenon b : parable, allegory
2 a : a popular belief or tradition that has grown up around something or someone; especially : one embodying the ideals and institutions of a society or segment of society b : an unfounded or false notion
3 : a person or thing having only an imaginary or unverifiable existence
4 : the whole body of myths


If you look specifically at part B of the 2nd definition it says a myth is defined as "an unfounded or false notion".

El wrote: "If you look specifically at part B of the 2nd definition it says a myth is defined as "an unfounded or false notion". "

And the first definition is "a usually traditional story of ostensibly historical events"

El wrote: "If you look specifically at part B of the 2nd definition it says a myth is defined as "an unfounded or false notion"."

Greyweather wrote: "And the first definition is "a usually traditional story of osten..."

Interpretation?

(Really going to need that sarcasm font.)

Right, which means it's plausible, yet not fact. I'm not necessarily arguing with you, but playing Devil's advocate. Greek mythology may be classified as nonfiction, but not many people still believe Zeus is really the god of thunder. Folklore falls under mythology but are considered stories, falling under the fiction category. I'm just sayin'.

Sam, don't forget the {} to show sarcasm in text. :)

El wrote: "Folklore falls under mythology but are considered stories, falling under the fiction category. I'm just sayin'."

Actually I always find folklore shelved in libraries and bookstores as non-fiction as well.

Greyweather wrote: "El wrote: "Folklore falls under mythology but are considered stories, falling under the fiction category. I'm just sayin'."

Actually I always find folklore shelved in libraries and bookstores as n..."

B&N has a Mythology section (can't remember if it's Mythology & Something) after Fiction & Lit and Poetry that has some folklore/tales in it, but you'll also find folklore/tales shelved in the various "Studies" sections--Religious, Cultural, etc.

In the end, it usually depends on the publisher of the folklore/tales rather than the folklore/tales themselves.

Greyweather wrote: "Actually I always find folklore shelved in libraries and bookstores as non-fiction as well."

I apologize, I was referring actually to folktales, not specifically folklore. Folktales are not considered true even by the societies telling the stories. That was the direction I was headed, but it's off point now.

*This is a Soapbox message. Do not read if you are of tender sensibilities*
And just to throw a little more fat on the fire, just remember for those of you who are uncomfortable or even offended by this task, that there are also those readers who may be upset about some of the Halloween tasks as being against their beliefs.
The great thing about this challenge is, ta da, we don't have to do the ones we don't want to! It's not school. It's not on your permenent record.
*steps off soapbox*

Wow. I find this thread absolutely fascinating. It's amazing how may different ways the task has been interpreted as well as the reasons why/why not to accept specific books under the umbrella.

Donna Jo wrote: "*This is a Soapbox message. Do not read if you are of tender sensibilities*
And just to throw a little more fat on the fire, just remember for those of you who are uncomfortable or even offended ..."

Donna Jo, I understood what you're saying, and you're correct in that it's not "required" in the grand scheme of things. But the Halloween tasks do not require anyone to go against their beliefs - the tasks are designed so as to allow people to find books within their comfort level/beliefs. Just because Sam's task asks for a book with "vampire" or "witch" in the title does not mean it has to be a book about vampires or witches. It could just be the word in the title, and the story could be unrelated to the supernatural. Example: Witch Grass, Raymond Queneau.

El wrote: "I apologize, I was referring actually to folktales, not specifically folklore. Folktales are not considered true even by the societies telling the stories. That was the direction I was headed, but it's off point now."

And I apologize, but I am a stubborn SOB, so I'm going to bring up another counter-argument. Not-true and non-fiction are not mutually exclusive. Take for example something like a textbook on physiognomy, a now discredited area of science. Such a book is still non-fiction because the author thought it was true when he wrote it.

I'm not trying to shut down anyone's discussion, in fact, I also find it fascinating and am really enjoying it. But, man, I hope that Julie can actually find the specific questions in this thread.

This should help: http://www.goodreads.com/topic/mentio...

Greyweather, LOL, I'm not denying any of it. My initial point was, again, "interpretation". I'm not saying you're wrong, just as I don't expect to be told I'm wrong. Das it.

Lyn, you're right - so my initial question is simply that I'm asking for more clarification. If Dante, Bunyan or other names that were thrown out there are allowed for this task even I will be able to find something that interests me. As the task is written it leads to very narrow thinking which it seems is confusing to not only myself, but several people here. Despite the friendly discussions about it here, I think we're all in the agreement that we hope Julie can expand on her expectations for her task!

Greyweather wrote: "This should help: http://www.goodreads.com/topic/mentio..."

Wow. That's handy!

Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in. :-)

Rachel wrote: As far as the potential of Christian fiction to be proselytizing, I think the same can be said for genre that has a strong viewpoint. I think the fact that Christian fiction is pro-Christian is to be expected, no?

Ya, I think that was my point. This genre does have a strong point of view, so we need to be a little bit sensitive to people who don't share that point of view. In some books, it will be easy for outsiders to sympathize with the perspective of the author because the theology is not quite as dominant or because, through fantasy or age, the book is removed from our contemporary world. Other books might be more difficult for non-Christians to embrace.

We'll just have to see how the cookie crumbles. I think we agree that we have to clarify the challenge with Julie and that we need to be sensitive towards all perspectives.

***kicks the dead horse a few more times*** Okay, now I'm done.

I want to seek out a thoroughly Christian fiction book (which I'm defining as one written and marketed as such) in an effort to be open to the full idea of the challenge. It's not my cup of tea, sure, but sometimes, that's OK. One of the most surprisingly good books I've ever read was an African-American horror novel (Tananarive Due's The Good House - seriously, it's awesome), so I'm taking a wait-and-see approach.

However, I still have a problem. That problem is that romance is so not my bag, and my mom (whose opinion I trust) told me that The Shack is terribly written. I'm just drawing blanks, and the lists aren't helping as much as I'd hoped. I don't want to fall back on the Biblical historical fiction option because it feels like a cop-out to me (YMMV, naturally), but I'm not up for the high-intensity LaHaye/Jenkins approach either. I'll keep rummaging through the thread - if you've got ideas for well-written Christian fiction that's neither sappy nor overly aggressive, by all means, shout.

I am just so glad that this is the new hot topic. I am curious about what will be okayed as Christian fiction. I was going to take this very literally and borrow one of my mother-in-law's Christian novels (like a romance novel, but faith based).

Hi everyone...just catching up a little and boy has this task sparked some interesting posts.
Anyway, I have what should be a simple question for Julie KS or whoever else can answer it. Does Kennison's Gifts by W. David Tibbs work for this task? A simple yes or no will be fine. :)

Joy Marie wrote: "A simple yes or no will be fine. :)"

Joy Marie, aww, where's the fun in that!? :)


Nicole, I think your rhyme task has been officially forgotten at the moment! :)

Wow when I posted this task I did not realize how much attention it would get. To try to answer most of the questions: C.S. Lewis would work as would most of the other books. the reason for this task is to have everyone read something new and possible Learn to like a new genre. Some things that won't work are books that focus on "spiritual living" and not Christian living.

And just so you know I work full time as a high school history teacher and will not usually be able to respond until evening

Yay! C.S. Lewis is approved!

Space trilogy, here I come!

Julie, I feel for you. This is quite a tome to get through after a long day in the classroom! And since I needed a break from thinking too much -- and, I admit, a selfish desire to truly understand what will qualify -- I did the crazy thing and tried to catch every author and book mentioned in this thread so far. I probably missed a couple, but I tried.

Anyhow, I bet if you can tell us if anything on this list would NOT qualify, you'd have a bunch of happy(er) campers:

authors
C.S. Lewis
Og Mandino
Beverly Lewis
Kristin Billerbeck
Ted Dekker
Janette Oke
Deeanne Gist
Mark Rempel
Melody Carlson
Meg Harper
Kacy Barnett-Gramckow
Stephen R. Lawhead
Charlaine Harris
G.K. Chesterton

books
The Lord of the Rings
The Left Behind series
The Bible (specific books, or the whole thing?)
The Vanishing Sculptor A Novel
Beyond the Reflection's Edge
Hideaway Series by Hannah Alexander
The Shack
The Sparrow by Mary Doria Russell
Traveling Mercies: Some Thoughts on Faith by Anne Lamott
Chicken Soup for the Soul
Zipporah, Wife of Moses A Novel by Marek Halter
Redeeming Love by Francine Rivers
Love Comes Softly series
One Tuesday Morning
At Home in Mitford by Jan Karon
The Red Tent by Anita Diamant
the Steeple Hill (HQN) series
The Book of Samson or The Preservationist, both by David Maine
the Christy Miller series by Robin Jones Gunn
Christy by Catherine Marshall
The Battersea Park Road to Enlightenment
The God Cookie A Novel
The Sparrow
Traveling Mercies Some Thoughts on Faith
Plan B Further Thoughts on Faith
The Dance of the Dissident Daughter
The Five People You Meet in Heaven by Mitch Albom
A Canticle for Leibowitz
The Pilgrim's Progress
The Divine Comedy (Inferno, Purgatorio & Paradiso)
The Stand by King
Book of Job
The Robe, by Lloyd C. Douglass
Ben Hur A Tale of the Christ, by Lew Wallace
The Power and the Glory, by Graham Greene
The Last Temptation of Christ
Kennison's Gifts by W. David Tibbs
Anne of Green Gables series

---EOL---

Also, as a newcomer to these challenges, it's heartening for me to see that this thread has remained largely in the world of polite discussion. Thanks for that, everyone!!

I'd be interested in reading:

Life of Christ by Giovanni Papini: part a religious novel, part a historical essay, and in part an exquisite example of dramatic literature, it's overwhelming theme is the poetic plea for the human race to return to a simple religion of brotherly love.

Inferno
Paradiso
Paradise Lost
The Last Temptation of Christ
The Power and the Glory
The Master and Margarita
or part of the Old Testament such as The Book of Job, Song of Solomon, Genesis.

Please let me know which, if any, are acceptable.

Yay! Chronicles of Narnia here I come! Wait - does it have to be the entire series or just one of the books? I just reread Lion and Caspian for the Summer Challenge... Are the single volumes okay?

Let me clarify a little further. This is Christian Fiction and that does not include mythology. I understand that this task will make some people uncomfortable, but you have two choices here, and I hope you take the time and read a new genre. You will be suprised to find that some of the books are not "preachy" they are just showing individuals that if you allow God to take control of your life you can expect change.
Some of the other authors and books mentioned in previous threads included the Left Behind Series, there is another series by the same two authors.

I will respond to the individual posts and do some more research on the books mentioned before I say yes or no.

Let me end with this, did anyone question any of the other tasks mainly the Halloween or the homosexual books that we are asked to read?

Krista wrote: "I'd love to get a ruling from Julie about using any of these three books. I think a couple of them have been mentioned in this thread, but I haven't seen a response yet. Thanks!

[book:The Spa..."

I would say all of these are good except Traveling Mercies.

Candace wrote: "Yay! Chronicles of Narnia here I come! Wait - does it have to be the entire series or just one of the books? I just reread Lion and Caspian for the Summer Challenge... Are the single volumes okay?"

Just one of the books

Julie wrote: "they are just showing individuals that if you allow God to take control of your life you can expect change"

That is preachy.

And, yes, someone did question the Harvey Milk challenge.

Sam wrote: "Julie wrote: "they are just showing individuals that if you allow God to take control of your life you can expect change"

That is preachy.

And, yes, someone did question the Harvey Milk challenge."

Good then I don't feel alone.

I don't think Julie thought there would be a lot of confusion as to the type of books to read--but that is because something we are familiar with is SO familiar to us we forget others might not get it. (Been there!) I have read in these threads topics for books I never heard of or thought of reading--but it has led me to try them.

I would just like to encourage my fellow readers to find a book by a Christian author you think you might like, check it with Julie and try it. I have read some books for past tasks that I didn't agree with the lifestyle, but found the story interesting and most often well told.

My daughter mentioned my favorite Christian author is Beverly Lewis who writes alot of Amish stories--and kids books. One of hers has been made into a movie--Saving Sarah Cain-- about a woman whose sister married Amish, both the sister and her husband die and the woman is left with the children.

Frank Peretti is also a Christian author who has written many suspenseful fiction books. The Hangman's Curse, the Visitation, or the Oath are some. They are quite suspenseful.(They tend to be loooong though!)

Having taught a series for women at my church on the Chronicles of Narnia-- it is all about FAITH. Lucy is the epitome of faith! I would recommend any of them if Julie agrees.

I also recommend Francine Rivers-- any of hers are truly stories of faith. I was amazed with Redeeming Love. Also, the Last Sin Eater is an interesting read and has been made into a movie.

Thanks for reading my suggestions and hopes it helps!

PS Julie may be very much like me, I read the threads every couple days--as my work and teaching schedule don't allow me time to check during the day. Good luck answering all the questions Julie. I know you will be able to clearly define what you are suggesting for your challenge.

Julie wrote: "Candace wrote: "Yay! Chronicles of Narnia here I come! Wait - does it have to be the entire series or just one of the books? I just reread Lion and Caspian for the Summer Challenge... Are the sin..."

Great! Thanks Julie! :)

Andreea wrote: "I was wondering what to read for this task myself. I hope Narnia's okay, or at least couldn't I read the Gospels instead of Christian fiction? Please?"

The Gospels are not fiction. Also, this needs to be a stand alone book, not part of a larger book

Jennifer L. wrote: "This is not one of my normal reading genres so I'm a little lost.

Is At Home in Mitford by Jan Karon ok for the task? Otherwise, it's going to be The Shack if Juli..."

I definitely say yes to The Shack.

Melissa wrote: "If you don't want anything that is too preachy, you may be interested in The Red Tent. It's the story of Dinah who is mentioned in the book of Genesis. I loved it. It can be considered..."

I agree with The Red Tent

Jessica wrote: "The Book of Samson or The Preservationist, both by David Maine should work for this also. (I think) :)"

Both of these would be fine

Katie wrote: "Sam wrote: "So...how should an atheist approach this challenge? I'm not, but it seems interesting to me that the directions to read "Christian Fiction" about a "Faith-Centered Life" are not mutuall..."

I am going to have to say no to this one. I can't find any evidence that this is Christian based.