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Byzantium
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ARCHIVE - 1. BYZANTIUM... December 5 ~ December 11th ~~ Introduction and Part One - Chapters ONE - TWO (xiii-22); No Spoilers Please
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This is a brief synopsis of the book itself:
Byzantium. The name evokes grandeur and exoticism--gold, cunning, and complexity.
In this unique book, Judith Herrin unveils the riches of a quite different civilization.
Avoiding a standard chronological account of the Byzantine Empire's millennium--long history, she identifies the fundamental questions about Byzantium--what it was, and what special significance it holds for us today.
Bringing the latest scholarship to a general audience in accessible prose, Herrin focuses each short chapter around a representative theme, event, monument, or historical figure, and examines it within the full sweep of Byzantine history--from the foundation of Constantinople, the magnificent capital city built by Constantine the Great, to its capture by the Ottoman Turks.
She argues that Byzantium's crucial role as the eastern defender of Christendom against Muslim expansion during the early Middle Ages made Europe--and the modern Western world--possible. Herrin captivates us with her discussions of all facets of Byzantine culture and society.
She walks us through the complex ceremonies of the imperial court. She describes the transcendent beauty and power of the church of Hagia Sophia, as well as chariot races, monastic spirituality, diplomacy, and literature.
She reveals the fascinating worlds of military usurpers and ascetics, eunuchs and courtesans, and artisans who fashioned the silks, icons, ivories, and mosaics so readily associated with Byzantine art.
An innovative history written by one of our foremost scholars, Byzantium reveals this great civilization's rise to military and cultural supremacy, its spectacular destruction by the Fourth Crusade, and its revival and final conquest in 1453.
About the Author:
Judith Herrin is professor of Late Antique and Byzantine Studies at King's College London. She is the author of Women in Purple: Rulers of Medieval Byzantium and The Formation of Christendom (both Princeton).
Byzantium. The name evokes grandeur and exoticism--gold, cunning, and complexity.
In this unique book, Judith Herrin unveils the riches of a quite different civilization.
Avoiding a standard chronological account of the Byzantine Empire's millennium--long history, she identifies the fundamental questions about Byzantium--what it was, and what special significance it holds for us today.
Bringing the latest scholarship to a general audience in accessible prose, Herrin focuses each short chapter around a representative theme, event, monument, or historical figure, and examines it within the full sweep of Byzantine history--from the foundation of Constantinople, the magnificent capital city built by Constantine the Great, to its capture by the Ottoman Turks.
She argues that Byzantium's crucial role as the eastern defender of Christendom against Muslim expansion during the early Middle Ages made Europe--and the modern Western world--possible. Herrin captivates us with her discussions of all facets of Byzantine culture and society.
She walks us through the complex ceremonies of the imperial court. She describes the transcendent beauty and power of the church of Hagia Sophia, as well as chariot races, monastic spirituality, diplomacy, and literature.
She reveals the fascinating worlds of military usurpers and ascetics, eunuchs and courtesans, and artisans who fashioned the silks, icons, ivories, and mosaics so readily associated with Byzantine art.
An innovative history written by one of our foremost scholars, Byzantium reveals this great civilization's rise to military and cultural supremacy, its spectacular destruction by the Fourth Crusade, and its revival and final conquest in 1453.
About the Author:
Judith Herrin is professor of Late Antique and Byzantine Studies at King's College London. She is the author of Women in Purple: Rulers of Medieval Byzantium and The Formation of Christendom (both Princeton).
Reviews:
"The scope and shape of Herrin's survey of Byzantine history and culture are impressive. She moves from the foundation of Constantinople to its fall before the Turks in a series of twenty-eight short chapters. This allows the curious or impatient reader to sample, according to taste, such delectable topics as Greek fire, eunuchs, icons, and the Towers of Trebizond . . . "
--G.W. Bowersock, New York Review of Books
"Offering a brilliant study of the history of the Byzantine empire, Herrin...draws [an] original portrait of a tradition-based yet dynamic empire that protected Christianity by checking the westward expansion of Islam. Drawing on letters, journals and other primary documents from both political figures and ordinary citizens, Herrin splendidly recreates an empire whose religious art, educational curriculum, tax and legal systems, and coronation rituals preserved the best of the empire's pre-Christian Greek past while at the same time passing along advances to the rest of the world. Herrin's history is hands-down the finest introduction to Byzantium and its continuing significance for world history."
--Publishers Weekly
"The book is comprehensive, but the paragraphs are never dense and the prose retains throughout a lively quality."
--J.W. Nesbitt, Choice
"The scope and shape of Herrin's survey of Byzantine history and culture are impressive. She moves from the foundation of Constantinople to its fall before the Turks in a series of twenty-eight short chapters. This allows the curious or impatient reader to sample, according to taste, such delectable topics as Greek fire, eunuchs, icons, and the Towers of Trebizond . . . "
--G.W. Bowersock, New York Review of Books
"Offering a brilliant study of the history of the Byzantine empire, Herrin...draws [an] original portrait of a tradition-based yet dynamic empire that protected Christianity by checking the westward expansion of Islam. Drawing on letters, journals and other primary documents from both political figures and ordinary citizens, Herrin splendidly recreates an empire whose religious art, educational curriculum, tax and legal systems, and coronation rituals preserved the best of the empire's pre-Christian Greek past while at the same time passing along advances to the rest of the world. Herrin's history is hands-down the finest introduction to Byzantium and its continuing significance for world history."
--Publishers Weekly
"The book is comprehensive, but the paragraphs are never dense and the prose retains throughout a lively quality."
--J.W. Nesbitt, Choice
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Additional Reviews:
"The big, standard histories contain a wearying succession of emperors, patriarchs, battles, and sieges...At the other end of the scale there are lightweight travelogues, or books that pick out the juiciest moments (such as the final siege of 1453), leaving aside many things that are more important but less conducive to a good story. Judith Herrin has tried to find a middle ground between those two extremes, and has succeeded in a rather original way. Her book is a necklace of short chapters, each on a different topic, strung out in broadly chronological order. Some are devoted to places (Ravenna, Mount Athos and, of course, Constantinople itself); some are about people (Anna Comnena, Saints Cyril and Methodius, and the unforgettably named Basil the Bulgar-Slayer); and some are on general subjects, whether large (Greek Orthodoxy, the Byzantine economy, the Crusades) or small ('Greek Fire', and eunuchs)."
--Noel Malcolm, The Daily Telegraph
"Judith Herrin, a professor at King's College London, sets out to show that there are far better reasons to study and admire the civilisation that flourished for more than a millennium before the conquest of Constantinople in 1453, and whose legacy is still discernible all over south-east Europe and the Levant. She presents Byzantium as a vibrant, dynamic, cosmopolitan reality which somehow escaped the constraints of its official ideology."
--The Economist
"Others in recent years have made worthy efforts to interest us in the Byzantine achievement, but none has made it live in quite the way that Herrin does. She's been bold in foregrounding themes, concerned more with painting a panoramic picture of Byzantium's 'surprising life' than to establish a chronology--though the narrative's there to give the reader a sense of how it all progressed.
Free from portentousness and pretentiousness, she doesn't insist on her subject's importance or relevance: the freshness and enthusiasm of her book is its real point.
Not just an important work of scholarship but a delight to read, this study works a minor miracle in raising Byzantium, Lazarus-like, from its dusty grave."
--Michael Kerrigan, The Scotsman
"[A] remarkable new history...Herrin takes a fresh approach and focuses on manifold aspects of Byzantine culture, civilization, and religion. Herrin's scholarship is impeccable, yet she writes like the very best of travel writers.
She paints vivid pictures of this prosperous and pious culture whose capital was a fortified city of sunlight glinting off the gilded church domes and spires, surrounded on three sides by the shimmering Sea of Marmara and the Bosphorus.... From the first page, the author embraces the reader in the love of her subject.
She entertains and captivates while throwing open the doors to her formidable treasury of knowledge..."
--M.M. Bennetts, Christian Science Monitor
"Byzantium's history is presented chronologically, which helps explain why there's no simple description of its legacy. Herrin's emphasis on the empire's proudest achievement, its culture--separate chapters are devoted to religion, economy, warfare, art and literature--is an armchair delight."
--Brett Popplewell, The Toronto Star
"[Herrin] takes an innovative approach.... The scope is broad--religion, politics, art, war, gender--and the style lively and personal."
--The Atlantic
"Byzantium covers a huge period of space, time, and cultural influence, which is now synthesized into bite-sized pieces in Judith Herrin's new book Byzantium. . . . As a non-specialist, I can fully attest to her success in making her book appear friendly and imminently readable. . . . The eye-catching cover is a visual clue to the treasures within this book, which explores the intrigue of the imperial Byzantine court; describes the lavish clothing, administration, food, architecture, and art of Byzantium; reveals a fascinating cast of royals and ascetics; and captures the imagination about this era of the Eastern Roman Empire down to the 15th century, when Byzantium falls to the Ottoman Empire. . . . Herrin seeks to promote the positive and creative aspects of Byzantium and show the reader a Byzantium that is more than derivative of Greek and Roman culture, but rather it¹s own culture. She excels at this. . . ."
--E-History.com
"Herrin's hope is to dispel the aura of decadence that hangs over Byzantium so that we can see the empire for what it was: one of the great, creative civilizations. Herrin's account shows that, indeed, Byzantium can't be explained as a millennial slide downhill, the judgment propounded by Gibbon in The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire and often repeated since."
--Roger Gathman, Austin American-Statesman
"Here of course lies the strong contemporary resonance of Herrin's argument. Her lively portrayal of a forgotten civilisation impacts on the revived Muslim awareness and expansion of today."
--Tom Nairn, Open Democracy Blog (reprinted from Australian Journal, Arena)
"It is only as one sees Byzantium for itself, and not simply in relation to Islam or Western Europe, that one can begin to appreciate its greatness. And that is what makes Herrin's Byzantium so welcome. All the expected topics are here: the founding of Constantinople, the building of the great church of Agia Sophia, the rule of Justinian and the codification of Roman law, the shimmering mosaics of Ravenna, the harsh consequences of the rise of Islam, the place of icons in Byzantine life and the iconoclastic controversy, the conversion of the Slavs and the creation of an alphabet for the Slavic tongue, Mount Athos, the outstanding historian Anna Komnene, the arrival of the Crusaders, the siege of Constantinople. But the book contains much more."
--Robert Louis Wilken, First Things
"Herrin has produced an accessible, fascinating book that avoids the pitfalls of writing by scholars for scholars. She doesn't dwell on the spectacular, although Byzantium has plenty of drama, but rather provides a surprisingly deep look into a lost world. Much to the point, as well, is that modern Europe and the rest of the Western world would have been a much different place had it not been for Byzantium and its thousand-year history from the sixth century to the 15th. It's an amazing story, and well told, as Herrin traces a civilization that combined pagan, Christian, Greek, Roman and ancient and medieval influences. This is a terrific read."
--Mark Horton, The Edmonton Journal
"The information here is both solid and detailed--so much so that even a specialist will frequently encounter previously unknown facts. . . . Byzantium offers a solid introduction to Byzantine history and culture, and the sheer depth of information it contains could repay multiple readings."
--Richard Tada, The Weekly Standard
"In this carefully researched, clearly written, and engaging book author Herrin opens up a neglected part of western history for the general reader."
--Charles L. P. Silet, Magill Book Reviews
"Judith Herrin's book provides a fine cultural backdrop to the study of Byzantine liturgy--and a good read for understanding this remarkable society on its own terms."
--Frank C. Senn, Worship
"At its best, the text is skillfully written, judiciously crafted, and lively."
--Florin Curta, American Historical Review
Books and Authors Mentioned:
by
Edward Gibbon
"The big, standard histories contain a wearying succession of emperors, patriarchs, battles, and sieges...At the other end of the scale there are lightweight travelogues, or books that pick out the juiciest moments (such as the final siege of 1453), leaving aside many things that are more important but less conducive to a good story. Judith Herrin has tried to find a middle ground between those two extremes, and has succeeded in a rather original way. Her book is a necklace of short chapters, each on a different topic, strung out in broadly chronological order. Some are devoted to places (Ravenna, Mount Athos and, of course, Constantinople itself); some are about people (Anna Comnena, Saints Cyril and Methodius, and the unforgettably named Basil the Bulgar-Slayer); and some are on general subjects, whether large (Greek Orthodoxy, the Byzantine economy, the Crusades) or small ('Greek Fire', and eunuchs)."
--Noel Malcolm, The Daily Telegraph
"Judith Herrin, a professor at King's College London, sets out to show that there are far better reasons to study and admire the civilisation that flourished for more than a millennium before the conquest of Constantinople in 1453, and whose legacy is still discernible all over south-east Europe and the Levant. She presents Byzantium as a vibrant, dynamic, cosmopolitan reality which somehow escaped the constraints of its official ideology."
--The Economist
"Others in recent years have made worthy efforts to interest us in the Byzantine achievement, but none has made it live in quite the way that Herrin does. She's been bold in foregrounding themes, concerned more with painting a panoramic picture of Byzantium's 'surprising life' than to establish a chronology--though the narrative's there to give the reader a sense of how it all progressed.
Free from portentousness and pretentiousness, she doesn't insist on her subject's importance or relevance: the freshness and enthusiasm of her book is its real point.
Not just an important work of scholarship but a delight to read, this study works a minor miracle in raising Byzantium, Lazarus-like, from its dusty grave."
--Michael Kerrigan, The Scotsman
"[A] remarkable new history...Herrin takes a fresh approach and focuses on manifold aspects of Byzantine culture, civilization, and religion. Herrin's scholarship is impeccable, yet she writes like the very best of travel writers.
She paints vivid pictures of this prosperous and pious culture whose capital was a fortified city of sunlight glinting off the gilded church domes and spires, surrounded on three sides by the shimmering Sea of Marmara and the Bosphorus.... From the first page, the author embraces the reader in the love of her subject.
She entertains and captivates while throwing open the doors to her formidable treasury of knowledge..."
--M.M. Bennetts, Christian Science Monitor
"Byzantium's history is presented chronologically, which helps explain why there's no simple description of its legacy. Herrin's emphasis on the empire's proudest achievement, its culture--separate chapters are devoted to religion, economy, warfare, art and literature--is an armchair delight."
--Brett Popplewell, The Toronto Star
"[Herrin] takes an innovative approach.... The scope is broad--religion, politics, art, war, gender--and the style lively and personal."
--The Atlantic
"Byzantium covers a huge period of space, time, and cultural influence, which is now synthesized into bite-sized pieces in Judith Herrin's new book Byzantium. . . . As a non-specialist, I can fully attest to her success in making her book appear friendly and imminently readable. . . . The eye-catching cover is a visual clue to the treasures within this book, which explores the intrigue of the imperial Byzantine court; describes the lavish clothing, administration, food, architecture, and art of Byzantium; reveals a fascinating cast of royals and ascetics; and captures the imagination about this era of the Eastern Roman Empire down to the 15th century, when Byzantium falls to the Ottoman Empire. . . . Herrin seeks to promote the positive and creative aspects of Byzantium and show the reader a Byzantium that is more than derivative of Greek and Roman culture, but rather it¹s own culture. She excels at this. . . ."
--E-History.com
"Herrin's hope is to dispel the aura of decadence that hangs over Byzantium so that we can see the empire for what it was: one of the great, creative civilizations. Herrin's account shows that, indeed, Byzantium can't be explained as a millennial slide downhill, the judgment propounded by Gibbon in The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire and often repeated since."
--Roger Gathman, Austin American-Statesman
"Here of course lies the strong contemporary resonance of Herrin's argument. Her lively portrayal of a forgotten civilisation impacts on the revived Muslim awareness and expansion of today."
--Tom Nairn, Open Democracy Blog (reprinted from Australian Journal, Arena)
"It is only as one sees Byzantium for itself, and not simply in relation to Islam or Western Europe, that one can begin to appreciate its greatness. And that is what makes Herrin's Byzantium so welcome. All the expected topics are here: the founding of Constantinople, the building of the great church of Agia Sophia, the rule of Justinian and the codification of Roman law, the shimmering mosaics of Ravenna, the harsh consequences of the rise of Islam, the place of icons in Byzantine life and the iconoclastic controversy, the conversion of the Slavs and the creation of an alphabet for the Slavic tongue, Mount Athos, the outstanding historian Anna Komnene, the arrival of the Crusaders, the siege of Constantinople. But the book contains much more."
--Robert Louis Wilken, First Things
"Herrin has produced an accessible, fascinating book that avoids the pitfalls of writing by scholars for scholars. She doesn't dwell on the spectacular, although Byzantium has plenty of drama, but rather provides a surprisingly deep look into a lost world. Much to the point, as well, is that modern Europe and the rest of the Western world would have been a much different place had it not been for Byzantium and its thousand-year history from the sixth century to the 15th. It's an amazing story, and well told, as Herrin traces a civilization that combined pagan, Christian, Greek, Roman and ancient and medieval influences. This is a terrific read."
--Mark Horton, The Edmonton Journal
"The information here is both solid and detailed--so much so that even a specialist will frequently encounter previously unknown facts. . . . Byzantium offers a solid introduction to Byzantine history and culture, and the sheer depth of information it contains could repay multiple readings."
--Richard Tada, The Weekly Standard
"In this carefully researched, clearly written, and engaging book author Herrin opens up a neglected part of western history for the general reader."
--Charles L. P. Silet, Magill Book Reviews
"Judith Herrin's book provides a fine cultural backdrop to the study of Byzantine liturgy--and a good read for understanding this remarkable society on its own terms."
--Frank C. Senn, Worship
"At its best, the text is skillfully written, judiciously crafted, and lively."
--Florin Curta, American Historical Review
Books and Authors Mentioned:


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Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief
(last edited Dec 04, 2011 06:51PM)
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rated it 3 stars
ADDITIONAL ENDORSEMENTS:
"This book provides an introduction to Byzantium in a nonconventional fashion. It explores, in chronological order, basic questions about Byzantine history and society. I know of no other book that attempts this approach to the millennium-long history of Byzantium. Judith Herrin is a scholar at the top of her form."
--Michael Maas, author of Exegesis and Empire in the Early Byzantine Mediterranean
"A very readable and enjoyable introduction to Byzantium. Judith Herrin is a major scholar of Byzantium with much to teach us."
--Robert Ousterhout, author of Master Builders of Byzantium
Exegesis and Empire in the Early Byzantine Mediterranean (Studies and Texts in Antiquity and Christianity Series): Junillus Africanus and the Instituta Regularia Divinae Legis by Michael Maas (no cover available) and (no photo available)
by Robert G. Ousterhout (no photo available)
"This book provides an introduction to Byzantium in a nonconventional fashion. It explores, in chronological order, basic questions about Byzantine history and society. I know of no other book that attempts this approach to the millennium-long history of Byzantium. Judith Herrin is a scholar at the top of her form."
--Michael Maas, author of Exegesis and Empire in the Early Byzantine Mediterranean
"A very readable and enjoyable introduction to Byzantium. Judith Herrin is a major scholar of Byzantium with much to teach us."
--Robert Ousterhout, author of Master Builders of Byzantium
Exegesis and Empire in the Early Byzantine Mediterranean (Studies and Texts in Antiquity and Christianity Series): Junillus Africanus and the Instituta Regularia Divinae Legis by Michael Maas (no cover available) and (no photo available)

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Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief
(last edited Dec 05, 2011 07:47AM)
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rated it 3 stars
SUMMARY AND OVERVIEW:
At the beginning of the book, we have an explanation of the cover, the table of contents, a list of illustrations which you will find throughout the book, a list of maps with pagination for all of the above.
Introduction - A Different History of Byzantium
Our author, Judith Herrin touches upon the genesis of the book with a story about two workmen stopping by her office in 2002 and asking her "What is Byzantine History?"
The author stated that she ran into a few difficulties when trying to take that encounter and answer that question in terms of her writing this book.
Thoughout the book she sought to "illuminate what Byzantium was, how it worked and what it stood for."
PART I - Foundations of Byzantium
Chapter 1 � "The City of Constantine"
In this chapter, the author associates Byzantium and the location of Byzantium with the city of Constanople (Istanbul).
Herrin then goes on to discuss the life of Constantine and his impact and development of the city which took his name, its location, its advantages, the hostile forces to the East as well as the influence of his pious mother.
Chapter 2 � "Constantinople, the largest city in Christendom"
With chapter 2, Herrin begins the story of the history of Constantinople - fifty years after the death of Constantine with a major crisis involving the Goths.
The chapter then flows to the story of Theodosius I and his impact on the city's history.
After his death, new walls were built around the city in 412. There were numerous attacks by Avar, Slav and Persian forces.
Then in the seventh century there were multiple sieges on the city that failed by Arab forces. There were multiple natural disasters in its history and Constantine V (741- 75) decided to rebuild.
In the late eleventh and twelfth century the Seljuk Turks advanced into Asia Minor. The city had become the envy of all and also of the hostile Turks. The Ottoman Turks were determined to make it their capital resulting in the siege of 1453.
Herrin ends the chapter with the statement that Constantinople is no longer the capital of the Turks and Turkey.
At the beginning of the book, we have an explanation of the cover, the table of contents, a list of illustrations which you will find throughout the book, a list of maps with pagination for all of the above.
Introduction - A Different History of Byzantium
Our author, Judith Herrin touches upon the genesis of the book with a story about two workmen stopping by her office in 2002 and asking her "What is Byzantine History?"
The author stated that she ran into a few difficulties when trying to take that encounter and answer that question in terms of her writing this book.
Thoughout the book she sought to "illuminate what Byzantium was, how it worked and what it stood for."
PART I - Foundations of Byzantium
Chapter 1 � "The City of Constantine"
In this chapter, the author associates Byzantium and the location of Byzantium with the city of Constanople (Istanbul).
Herrin then goes on to discuss the life of Constantine and his impact and development of the city which took his name, its location, its advantages, the hostile forces to the East as well as the influence of his pious mother.
Chapter 2 � "Constantinople, the largest city in Christendom"
With chapter 2, Herrin begins the story of the history of Constantinople - fifty years after the death of Constantine with a major crisis involving the Goths.
The chapter then flows to the story of Theodosius I and his impact on the city's history.
After his death, new walls were built around the city in 412. There were numerous attacks by Avar, Slav and Persian forces.
Then in the seventh century there were multiple sieges on the city that failed by Arab forces. There were multiple natural disasters in its history and Constantine V (741- 75) decided to rebuild.
In the late eleventh and twelfth century the Seljuk Turks advanced into Asia Minor. The city had become the envy of all and also of the hostile Turks. The Ottoman Turks were determined to make it their capital resulting in the siege of 1453.
Herrin ends the chapter with the statement that Constantinople is no longer the capital of the Turks and Turkey.
All, we have just begun a great story of a great city; in these early pages what are your first impressions of the book itself, the subject matter, the author's style, the early history of Constantinople?

I think she is doing pretty well; I'm impressed that she has a lot of ground to cover. It is tough to do. (I found the maps in the back. I was worried she did not include them.)

"She's been bold in foregrounding themes, concerned more with painting a panoramic picture of Byzantium's 'surprising life' than to establish a chronology--though the narrative's there to give the reader a sense of how it all progressed."
This approach works and if I don't slow myself down I'll finish this week and I don't like getting way ahead when there's a discussion involved.
Bryan, good point about the maps; they are in the back of the book. So often missing maps really make the reading confusing. But that is not the case here. I found her writing style to be very straightforward and easy to understand.
I also loved the story about the workman who found the courage to knock on her door and talk to her. A fortuitous knock.
I also loved the story about the workman who found the courage to knock on her door and talk to her. A fortuitous knock.
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Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief
(last edited Dec 05, 2011 10:30AM)
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rated it 3 stars
How many of you have visited Istanbul and/or have been able to tour or visit the Hagia Sophia? The mosaics must be incredible.
Here is Empress Zoe which was placed sideways on the cover of the book. What did folks think about the cover of the book and the choice of this mosaic?
It was interesting to me that Herrin took the time to discuss how the lowest levels of the scroll have been picked off; and that this is just the tip of the iceberg -- in terms of the destruction of almost all of the written records of the Empire --as well as other mosaics --and much of the evidence of the Byzantine culture.
< img src= "" />
Empress Zoe - Hagia Sophia
Here is Empress Zoe which was placed sideways on the cover of the book. What did folks think about the cover of the book and the choice of this mosaic?
It was interesting to me that Herrin took the time to discuss how the lowest levels of the scroll have been picked off; and that this is just the tip of the iceberg -- in terms of the destruction of almost all of the written records of the Empire --as well as other mosaics --and much of the evidence of the Byzantine culture.
< img src= "" />
Empress Zoe - Hagia Sophia
Becky wrote: "I enjoyed the introduction but then Chapter 1 seemed to drag for me. Chapter 2 was much better and then the book just got better and better as I saw what Herrin was doing. This is not a chronolog..."
Becky, all good points - about this not being a chronological approach - but more a thematic one. I also agree that I think she was quite innovative in her approach to this complex subject.
Becky, all good points - about this not being a chronological approach - but more a thematic one. I also agree that I think she was quite innovative in her approach to this complex subject.

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Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief
(last edited Dec 05, 2011 12:13PM)
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rated it 3 stars
Bryan, you make an excellent point. Imagery is often destroyed by the aggressor because the icons are not the aggressor's icons.
However, many of the artifacts were not only destroyed but also even carted off by the Crusaders and ended up in Venice at St. Marks; and then of course, Herrin did state that the Arabs plastered them over. The Crusaders and the plastering job might very well have been the only way some of this art is with us today.
However, many of the artifacts were not only destroyed but also even carted off by the Crusaders and ended up in Venice at St. Marks; and then of course, Herrin did state that the Arabs plastered them over. The Crusaders and the plastering job might very well have been the only way some of this art is with us today.


I really look forward to reading this book, especially because I've been in Turkey and in Istanbul, where I saw its main attractions, for an example Hagia Sophia, Blue Mosque, Hippodrome, Basilica Cistern, Topkapi Palace. Turkey holds many wonders, in other parts of the country too, built in Greek, Roman, Byzantine and Islamic times. Wish to know English more proficient so to express the awe I felt during that time in Turkey much better! Maybe I'll challenge myself to visit it again soon after reading this book ;-)
Zeljika, thank you for joining the discussion. I am so delighted that you like the book thus far.
You will do just fine so do not worry; we are here to help if needed.
How exciting that you have been to Turkey and Istanbul. Tell us about your impressions of the Hagia Sophia as it is today and some of the restorations (especially the restorations that revealed the Byzantine mosaics).
With so many wondrous locations, your visit must have been awesome.
We have a glossary thread in this same folder where I have added some information on the Hagia Sophia.
You will do just fine so do not worry; we are here to help if needed.
How exciting that you have been to Turkey and Istanbul. Tell us about your impressions of the Hagia Sophia as it is today and some of the restorations (especially the restorations that revealed the Byzantine mosaics).
With so many wondrous locations, your visit must have been awesome.
We have a glossary thread in this same folder where I have added some information on the Hagia Sophia.
Virginia wrote: "I enjoyed the intro and have finished Chapter 1 so far. It is a joy to have a history book about a long-ago time that is much easier to read and comprehend and with less wading through 100 generat..."
Virginia, how delightful to have you join us on this read. And I suspect that this will be a good one. The book thus far from my viewpoint appears to be artfully written and constructed. So lucid.
I could not agree with your comments more.
Virginia, how delightful to have you join us on this read. And I suspect that this will be a good one. The book thus far from my viewpoint appears to be artfully written and constructed. So lucid.
I could not agree with your comments more.
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Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief
(last edited Dec 05, 2011 06:02PM)
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rated it 3 stars
Hi Kathy F - I think you have gotten a little ahead of our weekly non spoiler thread so I have moved your comment to the glossary which is a spoiler thread. Only the weekly threads are non spoiler. Be sure to check page numbers and make sure that the comments do not go ahead of where we are. Thanks so much. There are plenty of spoiler threads if you want to discuss topics ahead of where the non spoiler threads are.

Sorry Bentley, I am afraid I finished the book and returned it to the library. I have my comments listed by chapters. I'll try not to get ahead of the discussion again. But it is so hard . . . ;] Guess who was the kid who couldn't keep their hand down in school. lol.
Kathy F, you are making me laugh. I understand; but I set up an all encompassing spoiler thread if need be (just in case - smile).
It does seem to be a great read so far and we digress during the reading to discuss all sorts of ancillary material introduced in the assigned reading pages. It is hard when you read ahead - I understand.
It does seem to be a great read so far and we digress during the reading to discuss all sorts of ancillary material introduced in the assigned reading pages. It is hard when you read ahead - I understand.

I have been to Ephesus and was absolutely impressed with it. It will be interesting to return to the area, to hopefully visit Troia and of course Istanbul, now that I know more history behind it.
Mandy, I have to agree. I think this book will be a fascinating journey.
It sounds like you had a great trip to Ephesus. What was there about Constantine that impressed you the most?
It sounds like you had a great trip to Ephesus. What was there about Constantine that impressed you the most?
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Who was Empress Zoe?
It is obvious that Judith Herrin wanted us to know about Empress Zoe right away because she placed her on the cover of her book and even before the introduction discussed her in detail telling us quite a bit about her life.
Here is a write-up I found on the internet which lays out a chronological timeline for us. Herrin indicates that the mosaic was done when Zoe was 60 yet she looks like a rather young beauty.
I am not sure that Zoe looks beautiful in the mosaic; she does look rich and powerful for sure. Did anybody else think that Zoe was a beautiful woman?
The write-up from h2g2:
Zoe and Theodora were the daughters of Constantine VIII, and nieces of Basil II the Bulgar Slayer. Of the pair, Zoe was the elder and she was supposed to be very beautiful - short and plump, she had golden hair and smooth white skin. Theodora was taller and thinner, and considered plain. The two sisters did not get on with each other.
Zoe was born in 978 during the reign of her uncle Basil. For nearly 50 years of her life, Basil ruled as Emperor and was a very good one. In 1001, when Zoe was 23, she was promised in marriage to the ruler of Western Europe, Otto III. This would have united the Eastern and Western Empires, and if they had had a son, there would have been one Roman Emperor, ruling over the whole of Europe. Zoe was actually en route to the wedding in the West with her retinue, and had got as far as Bari in Italy, when the news came that Otto had died suddenly. She returned to Constantinople, where she continued to live a single life, pampered by her father with everything that money could buy.
Constantine VIII
Basil died when Zoe was 47, leaving the throne to her father, Constantine. Officially, Constantine had ruled jointly with Basil for all of Basil's period as Emperor, but in fact he had never made any decisions and had left the entire affair to his older brother. Now he was sole ruler at the age of 65, and totally unsuited to the job. Various stern measures introduced by Basil were immediately relaxed by Constantine, because the Anatolian nobility put him under pressure. At the same time, he could be incredibly cruel, torturing and mutilating people he didn't like, then tearful and repentant afterwards. Thankfully for the Empire, he only lived another three years.
On his deathbed, Constantine decided that his daughter Zoe should marry, so that his son-in-law would become the new Emperor. It was not thought that a woman could rule the Empire effectively, although it wasn't specifically forbidden by law. Constantine chose a man of 60 for his daughter - Romanus Argyrus. Romanus was already married, so Constantine offered him the choice of divorce or being blinded. His wife made the choice for him, shaving her head and withdrawing to a convent.
Romanus Argyrus
Zoe was married to Romanus on 10 November, 1028. On 11 November, Constantine died. On 12 November, the couple were crowned Emperor and Empress of Byzantium.
Zoe and Romanus now set about trying to produce an heir. Romanus bought all sorts of aphrodisiacs to assist in this. But Zoe was already 50, so no child was forthcoming. Soon Romanus lost heart, he lost all interest in Zoe and took a mistress. More importantly as far as Zoe was concerned, he cut off her spending allowance; she was a pampered woman and now suddenly she couldn't buy anything she wanted.
Zoe vented her anger on her sister Theodora; in 1031, she sent her off to a convent, a convenient way of disposing of a female relative without actually killing her.
Romanus was not a successful Emperor. He proved to be a bad general - at the first sight of the enemy, he turned tail and ran. He was a mediocre administrator. The only thing he did for the city was to order the construction of a large and expensive church and monastery in the southwest of the city, the St Mary Peribleptos.
Michael IV
Left in the cold by her husband, Zoe befriended a young man called Michael, known as Michael the Paphlagonian2. She fell madly in love with him, although he was more than 30 years younger than her. In 1034, Romanus was found dead in his bath - it's not known whether he had a heart attack and drowned, or was held under the water. Subsequent events would certainly make us suspect the latter. The Patriarch (the ruler of the Christian church in Constantinople) was summoned to the palace. He was brought into a room where he saw to his horror the semi-naked body of the dead emperor. Then he was brought into the next room, where Zoe and Michael sat side by side in full imperial regalia. He was ordered to marry them, and he then invested Michael as Emperor Michael IV.
Michael was a good emperor. As well as being physically very good-looking, he also cared a lot about his rule - and worked hard to set the Empire to rights. He was an efficient administrator, and put much work into improving the city, building churches and monasteries. However, he was not a well man: he suffered from epilepsy and dropsy, an unpleasant swelling of the tissues due to excessive lymphatic fluid, which made him impotent. Perhaps because of this, and perhaps because of feelings of guilt, he did not reciprocate Zoe's infatuation, and quickly took to avoiding her, eventually confining her to the women's quarters and cutting off her access to the state treasury.
Michael was not without his faults, though. He appointed his own brother-in-law, Stephen, to a senior position on a military manoeuvre to recover Byzantine Sicily from the Saracens. When Stephen fought with the general, the general was recalled to Constantinople and Stephen was put in charge of the whole affair, resulting in the loss of all the territory that they had earlier gained.
As time went on, Michael became sicker, his dropsy causing his body and particularly his legs to swell hideously, and he was in constant pain. Despite this, he personally led a successful campaign against Bulgarian rebels in 1040. He died in December of the same year; he was only 31. Zoe was now a widow for the second time.
Michael V
Zoe and Michael had had no children, so before he died he persuaded Zoe to adopt his nephew, also called Michael, as her son. This young man was known as Michael the Caulker, because of a profession of his father. When Emperor Michael IV died in 1041, Zoe was 63 years old. She was persuaded to let Michael, as her adopted son, become Emperor, and he was crowned Michael V.
Michael very quickly showed that he was made of stern stuff. He detested the aristocracy, the stodgy bureaucracy of the Byzantine court, and anybody telling him what to do. He cleared many people out of the palace, replacing the guards with ones of his own choosing, and exiling his uncle John who he felt was interfering in his rule. Many of the changes made by Michael were genuine improvements.
After only four months as emperor, Michael went one step too far. On 18 April, 1042, he arrested his adoptive mother, Zoe, on a charge of having attempted to kill him. Without trial, he declared her deposed, had her head shaved and packed her off to a convent on a nearby island. This was announced to the people the next day, but Michael was in for a shock - the people were outraged! It seemed that the Byzantines really were fond of Zoe; she had been empress for 14 years, and had been a princess in the palace for all of her long life. The people weren't going to put up with this treatment of her, and there was rioting in the streets. Michael retreated to the Imperial Palace, which was fortified, and sent the order to retrieve Zoe from the convent. Meanwhile, the rioting continued and more than 3,000 people were killed.
When Zoe returned, she and Michael appeared together in the imperial box at the Hippodrome, but the people were not happy. They considered that Michael was holding her prisoner. They wanted nothing further to do with him, and made this clear.
Empresses Zoe and Theodora
Someone got the idea that Theodora was still alive and well in the convent. She was also born to the purple, so she could rule jointly with Zoe. She was quickly brought, against her will, to Hagia Sophia, where they crowned her Empress. Michael was declared deposed. Zoe was furious when she heard that she had to share her throne with her hated sister. But when she heard the crowds chanting Theodora's name, she realised it was what the people wanted.
Meanwhile, Michael fled the palace by boat and sailed along the coast to the monastery of Studium, where he hoped he would be safe. Not so. The crowds tracked him down and he was dragged out, put on a donkey and driven back to the centre of the city. On the way, soldiers arrived with orders from Theodora: he was to be blinded. They carried out the order on the spot. Michael lived for only a few months more, in shame, in a monastery.
Zoe and Theodora ruled together for about a year, but they disagreed on most issues, forcing the court into two opposing camps. The joint rule wasn't working, so it was suggested that one of the two sisters should marry. Theodora refused, but Zoe was delighted.
Constantine IX Monomachus
There was a man called Constantine Monomachus who Zoe had been friendly with before. He was living with his mistress on the island of Lesbos. Zoe decided he would make the perfect third husband for her, so she fetched him to Byzantium. The couple were married and he was crowned Emperor Constantine IX.
By now, Zoe was under no illusions about her abilities as a wife. She appears to have been really fond of Constantine and wanted him to be happy, so she wrote to the mistress, Maria Skleraina, who was still living in Lesbos, and suggested that she should come and live with them in the palace. Maria agreed. The love between the emperor and his mistress was officially confirmed in a 'loving-cup' ceremony in front of the Senate.
At last, Zoe had found a man who was willing to live life to the full, and to let her do so as well. The two spent and spent - rumours told that Zoe had rooms full of equipment to make cosmetics so that her skin could remain unblemished into her seventies. Constantine, meanwhile, tried to encourage an atmosphere of learning and enlightenment in Byzantium, and succeeded. There was a Renaissance of the arts and sciences, and the University of Constantinople became renowned throughout the known world.
Unfortunately, this was all achieved to the detriment of more important issues: national defence and the army. Constantine let the army be reduced to its lowest ever, to save money. Who needed an army when he had peace treaties with his neighbours? The result of this was that the northern Danube frontier was invaded, the Normans continued their conquest of Byzantine Southern Italy, and the Seljuk Turks built up their forces on the Eastern borders, getting ready for the conquest of Anatolia, the heart of the Empire, only 20 years or so later. All in all, Constantine Monomachus is considered one of the worst emperors, because the Empire was falling apart around him and he did nothing to stop it, if he even noticed at all.
The Death of Zoe
Zoe died in 1050, aged 72. In contrast to the first 50 years of her life as a princess, the last 22 as an empress had certainly been eventful. She had been married three times, and had possibly assisted in the murder of one of those husbands. She had adopted a son and proclaimed him emperor, only to have him depose and banish her. Plus she had ruled along with her sister.
Constantine ruled for five years after the death of Zoe, before succumbing himself. Theodora ruled for another year, and then she too died. In the 31 years starting with the death of Basil, Byzantium had experienced seven different rulers, including women, sick men, cruel men and possible murderers. There would be another six in the next 25 years until stability was restored by Alexius Comnenus in 1081.
It is obvious that Judith Herrin wanted us to know about Empress Zoe right away because she placed her on the cover of her book and even before the introduction discussed her in detail telling us quite a bit about her life.
Here is a write-up I found on the internet which lays out a chronological timeline for us. Herrin indicates that the mosaic was done when Zoe was 60 yet she looks like a rather young beauty.
I am not sure that Zoe looks beautiful in the mosaic; she does look rich and powerful for sure. Did anybody else think that Zoe was a beautiful woman?
The write-up from h2g2:
Zoe and Theodora were the daughters of Constantine VIII, and nieces of Basil II the Bulgar Slayer. Of the pair, Zoe was the elder and she was supposed to be very beautiful - short and plump, she had golden hair and smooth white skin. Theodora was taller and thinner, and considered plain. The two sisters did not get on with each other.
Zoe was born in 978 during the reign of her uncle Basil. For nearly 50 years of her life, Basil ruled as Emperor and was a very good one. In 1001, when Zoe was 23, she was promised in marriage to the ruler of Western Europe, Otto III. This would have united the Eastern and Western Empires, and if they had had a son, there would have been one Roman Emperor, ruling over the whole of Europe. Zoe was actually en route to the wedding in the West with her retinue, and had got as far as Bari in Italy, when the news came that Otto had died suddenly. She returned to Constantinople, where she continued to live a single life, pampered by her father with everything that money could buy.
Constantine VIII
Basil died when Zoe was 47, leaving the throne to her father, Constantine. Officially, Constantine had ruled jointly with Basil for all of Basil's period as Emperor, but in fact he had never made any decisions and had left the entire affair to his older brother. Now he was sole ruler at the age of 65, and totally unsuited to the job. Various stern measures introduced by Basil were immediately relaxed by Constantine, because the Anatolian nobility put him under pressure. At the same time, he could be incredibly cruel, torturing and mutilating people he didn't like, then tearful and repentant afterwards. Thankfully for the Empire, he only lived another three years.
On his deathbed, Constantine decided that his daughter Zoe should marry, so that his son-in-law would become the new Emperor. It was not thought that a woman could rule the Empire effectively, although it wasn't specifically forbidden by law. Constantine chose a man of 60 for his daughter - Romanus Argyrus. Romanus was already married, so Constantine offered him the choice of divorce or being blinded. His wife made the choice for him, shaving her head and withdrawing to a convent.
Romanus Argyrus
Zoe was married to Romanus on 10 November, 1028. On 11 November, Constantine died. On 12 November, the couple were crowned Emperor and Empress of Byzantium.
Zoe and Romanus now set about trying to produce an heir. Romanus bought all sorts of aphrodisiacs to assist in this. But Zoe was already 50, so no child was forthcoming. Soon Romanus lost heart, he lost all interest in Zoe and took a mistress. More importantly as far as Zoe was concerned, he cut off her spending allowance; she was a pampered woman and now suddenly she couldn't buy anything she wanted.
Zoe vented her anger on her sister Theodora; in 1031, she sent her off to a convent, a convenient way of disposing of a female relative without actually killing her.
Romanus was not a successful Emperor. He proved to be a bad general - at the first sight of the enemy, he turned tail and ran. He was a mediocre administrator. The only thing he did for the city was to order the construction of a large and expensive church and monastery in the southwest of the city, the St Mary Peribleptos.
Michael IV
Left in the cold by her husband, Zoe befriended a young man called Michael, known as Michael the Paphlagonian2. She fell madly in love with him, although he was more than 30 years younger than her. In 1034, Romanus was found dead in his bath - it's not known whether he had a heart attack and drowned, or was held under the water. Subsequent events would certainly make us suspect the latter. The Patriarch (the ruler of the Christian church in Constantinople) was summoned to the palace. He was brought into a room where he saw to his horror the semi-naked body of the dead emperor. Then he was brought into the next room, where Zoe and Michael sat side by side in full imperial regalia. He was ordered to marry them, and he then invested Michael as Emperor Michael IV.
Michael was a good emperor. As well as being physically very good-looking, he also cared a lot about his rule - and worked hard to set the Empire to rights. He was an efficient administrator, and put much work into improving the city, building churches and monasteries. However, he was not a well man: he suffered from epilepsy and dropsy, an unpleasant swelling of the tissues due to excessive lymphatic fluid, which made him impotent. Perhaps because of this, and perhaps because of feelings of guilt, he did not reciprocate Zoe's infatuation, and quickly took to avoiding her, eventually confining her to the women's quarters and cutting off her access to the state treasury.
Michael was not without his faults, though. He appointed his own brother-in-law, Stephen, to a senior position on a military manoeuvre to recover Byzantine Sicily from the Saracens. When Stephen fought with the general, the general was recalled to Constantinople and Stephen was put in charge of the whole affair, resulting in the loss of all the territory that they had earlier gained.
As time went on, Michael became sicker, his dropsy causing his body and particularly his legs to swell hideously, and he was in constant pain. Despite this, he personally led a successful campaign against Bulgarian rebels in 1040. He died in December of the same year; he was only 31. Zoe was now a widow for the second time.
Michael V
Zoe and Michael had had no children, so before he died he persuaded Zoe to adopt his nephew, also called Michael, as her son. This young man was known as Michael the Caulker, because of a profession of his father. When Emperor Michael IV died in 1041, Zoe was 63 years old. She was persuaded to let Michael, as her adopted son, become Emperor, and he was crowned Michael V.
Michael very quickly showed that he was made of stern stuff. He detested the aristocracy, the stodgy bureaucracy of the Byzantine court, and anybody telling him what to do. He cleared many people out of the palace, replacing the guards with ones of his own choosing, and exiling his uncle John who he felt was interfering in his rule. Many of the changes made by Michael were genuine improvements.
After only four months as emperor, Michael went one step too far. On 18 April, 1042, he arrested his adoptive mother, Zoe, on a charge of having attempted to kill him. Without trial, he declared her deposed, had her head shaved and packed her off to a convent on a nearby island. This was announced to the people the next day, but Michael was in for a shock - the people were outraged! It seemed that the Byzantines really were fond of Zoe; she had been empress for 14 years, and had been a princess in the palace for all of her long life. The people weren't going to put up with this treatment of her, and there was rioting in the streets. Michael retreated to the Imperial Palace, which was fortified, and sent the order to retrieve Zoe from the convent. Meanwhile, the rioting continued and more than 3,000 people were killed.
When Zoe returned, she and Michael appeared together in the imperial box at the Hippodrome, but the people were not happy. They considered that Michael was holding her prisoner. They wanted nothing further to do with him, and made this clear.
Empresses Zoe and Theodora
Someone got the idea that Theodora was still alive and well in the convent. She was also born to the purple, so she could rule jointly with Zoe. She was quickly brought, against her will, to Hagia Sophia, where they crowned her Empress. Michael was declared deposed. Zoe was furious when she heard that she had to share her throne with her hated sister. But when she heard the crowds chanting Theodora's name, she realised it was what the people wanted.
Meanwhile, Michael fled the palace by boat and sailed along the coast to the monastery of Studium, where he hoped he would be safe. Not so. The crowds tracked him down and he was dragged out, put on a donkey and driven back to the centre of the city. On the way, soldiers arrived with orders from Theodora: he was to be blinded. They carried out the order on the spot. Michael lived for only a few months more, in shame, in a monastery.
Zoe and Theodora ruled together for about a year, but they disagreed on most issues, forcing the court into two opposing camps. The joint rule wasn't working, so it was suggested that one of the two sisters should marry. Theodora refused, but Zoe was delighted.
Constantine IX Monomachus
There was a man called Constantine Monomachus who Zoe had been friendly with before. He was living with his mistress on the island of Lesbos. Zoe decided he would make the perfect third husband for her, so she fetched him to Byzantium. The couple were married and he was crowned Emperor Constantine IX.
By now, Zoe was under no illusions about her abilities as a wife. She appears to have been really fond of Constantine and wanted him to be happy, so she wrote to the mistress, Maria Skleraina, who was still living in Lesbos, and suggested that she should come and live with them in the palace. Maria agreed. The love between the emperor and his mistress was officially confirmed in a 'loving-cup' ceremony in front of the Senate.
At last, Zoe had found a man who was willing to live life to the full, and to let her do so as well. The two spent and spent - rumours told that Zoe had rooms full of equipment to make cosmetics so that her skin could remain unblemished into her seventies. Constantine, meanwhile, tried to encourage an atmosphere of learning and enlightenment in Byzantium, and succeeded. There was a Renaissance of the arts and sciences, and the University of Constantinople became renowned throughout the known world.
Unfortunately, this was all achieved to the detriment of more important issues: national defence and the army. Constantine let the army be reduced to its lowest ever, to save money. Who needed an army when he had peace treaties with his neighbours? The result of this was that the northern Danube frontier was invaded, the Normans continued their conquest of Byzantine Southern Italy, and the Seljuk Turks built up their forces on the Eastern borders, getting ready for the conquest of Anatolia, the heart of the Empire, only 20 years or so later. All in all, Constantine Monomachus is considered one of the worst emperors, because the Empire was falling apart around him and he did nothing to stop it, if he even noticed at all.
The Death of Zoe
Zoe died in 1050, aged 72. In contrast to the first 50 years of her life as a princess, the last 22 as an empress had certainly been eventful. She had been married three times, and had possibly assisted in the murder of one of those husbands. She had adopted a son and proclaimed him emperor, only to have him depose and banish her. Plus she had ruled along with her sister.
Constantine ruled for five years after the death of Zoe, before succumbing himself. Theodora ruled for another year, and then she too died. In the 31 years starting with the death of Basil, Byzantium had experienced seven different rulers, including women, sick men, cruel men and possible murderers. There would be another six in the next 25 years until stability was restored by Alexius Comnenus in 1081.

The journey through Turkey was taken four years ago, I wish I can remember all the details that had struck me with awe back then in Aya Sofia - your post in the Glossary offers better guidance of it for the curious.
Some mosaics were under restoration works, but luckily the most impressive ones weren't, such as the mosaic of the Emperor kneeling before the Christ Pantocrator, above the Imperial Gate. It is said that this mosaic is the oldest one, and I admit it was for me the most beautiful one, with the golden background glittering on the daylight like brand new (well, considering the fact they all were covered for quite a long time...). The other I remember was I think the biggest one, Virgin Mary with the Child, also on the golden background, high above in the apse. As there were restoration stairs all around, not many mosaics were fully visible, but the architecture could be admired perfectly well anyway. The huge granite and marble columns, arches and surfaces are all clad in various shades of white, blue, green, pink, gray, black, red etc, which in combination with round medallions with golden Arabic inscriptions really offer magnificent sight, especially by the full daylight.
It's worth also to mention two lovely, huge urns wholly made from one piece of marble (each of course ;-). They weren't originally part of the Justinian's church, but were brought in by one sultan, I guess for religious purposes, like candles albeit bigger ones ;-)
BTW I finished the Introduction Chapter and I am really getting excited over the prospect of reading the book. (view spoiler)
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(last edited Dec 06, 2011 09:08AM)
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This Week's Assigned Reading:
Herrin indicates that the mosaic reflects some of the themes of the book including the following:
Questions for discussion:
a) How were any of the above themes developed and discussed in the Introduction, Chapters One and Chapters Two?
b) How did the mosaic of Empress Zoe impress or not impress you?
c) How different were the lives of the Byzantine people versus the lives of the Turkish people in Istanbul today (both men and women)?
d) What seemed to be the role of women during the Byzantine era and what is the role of women today in Turkey?
Note: Since I have not been to Turkey, I would like to hear also from folks who have visited or who have lived or live in Turkey in order to discuss the way of life today and how different it must have been during the Byzantine era (pros and cons).
Herrin indicates that the mosaic reflects some of the themes of the book including the following:
a) The remarkable literacy of Byzantine society
b) Its powerful sense of tradition
c) The exceptionally important role of women over imperial authority
d) The quality of Byzantine Art
e) The self confidence of the Europe's inhabitants
f) The capacity of the Byzantines for renewal
g) The destruction of all of the written records of the Empire
h) Well educated women
Questions for discussion:
a) How were any of the above themes developed and discussed in the Introduction, Chapters One and Chapters Two?
b) How did the mosaic of Empress Zoe impress or not impress you?
c) How different were the lives of the Byzantine people versus the lives of the Turkish people in Istanbul today (both men and women)?
d) What seemed to be the role of women during the Byzantine era and what is the role of women today in Turkey?
Note: Since I have not been to Turkey, I would like to hear also from folks who have visited or who have lived or live in Turkey in order to discuss the way of life today and how different it must have been during the Byzantine era (pros and cons).

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Zeljika - I was thinking the same thing when I read it. Wow - what a blockbuster - too bad Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton are still not around - the blockbuster "Zoe" would be even more interesting than Cleopatra.
Now who would play Zoe (she was pretty and plump?)
I am glad you enjoyed the article which was like reading one of those entertainment weeklies. (smile) What a character she must have been and the Byzantine people were no slouches either (smile).
Now who would play Zoe (she was pretty and plump?)
I am glad you enjoyed the article which was like reading one of those entertainment weeklies. (smile) What a character she must have been and the Byzantine people were no slouches either (smile).

I have no idea if Zoe was beautiful or not - she was certainly trying to either become beautiful or remain beautiful what with all the cosmetics and so on. And I'd guess that the portraits are appropriately accommodating to an Empress who wants to be seen as beautiful. And it was said that she was "stunningly beautiful."


The Chronographia is a very interesting take on the Empire but I think it presents a pov quite sympathetic to the rulers and the state. The very brief introductory material:
The Chronographia composed by the most learned and right honourable monk Michael, in which are recounted the deeds of the following Emperors: Basil and Constantine, the Porphyrogeniti; their successor, Romanus Argyropulus; Michael the Paphlagonian; Michael, nephew of the last-named, who originally had the title of Caesar; the two sisters Zoe and Theodora, also Porphyrogenitiae and both princesses; Constantine Monomachus, who shared the throne with them; the princess Theodora, one of the aforementioned sisters, who ruled as Empress alone; Michael the Aged; Isaac Comnenus. The History ends with the proclamation of Constantine Ducas.
or
You are welcome Becky; I found the account to be colorful (smile). Now your source seems to be a much more serious source; but it looks like it is worth pursuing as an ancillary source for additional information.
Thank you for the add.
Thank you for the add.

I have visited Hagia Sophia about a half dozen times. It is a truly inspiring place. I am enjoying the book and some author notes and I'm half way through ch. 1 so far.
Here is a link to some HD photos on Flickr, of Istanbul and Hagia Sophia from last summer:
No ads or commercial content, don't worry.
Laurence
Thank you Laurence; those photos show the city that Istanbul has become; a far cry from the early renditions of the location. Such beauty in the mosaics (the portions remaining). It is a shame that they were plastered over; but possibly the plastering actually protected them somewhat (one never knows); especially with the removal of portions of the mosaics by souvenir seekers.
I am glad that you are enjoying the book and thank you so much for the photos and for making sure that there were no ads or commercial content. The photos are of great quality.
I am glad that you are enjoying the book and thank you so much for the photos and for making sure that there were no ads or commercial content. The photos are of great quality.

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In the introduction - page xii, Herrin wrote in comparing how this book would be different:
"Often they describe the succession of 90 emperors, and about 125 patriarchs of Constantinople, and innumerable battles, in predictable categories of political, military and religious activity, relentlessly across eleven hundred years."
She then said that she got into difficulties: "I made too many assumptions, couldn't resist the abstruse anecdote."
It appears that Herrin has set the stage as others have pointed out for a more thematic versus chronological approach in her book but what do you think she meant by the statement that she made many assumptions? And what is the "abstruse anecdote" she refers to?
"Often they describe the succession of 90 emperors, and about 125 patriarchs of Constantinople, and innumerable battles, in predictable categories of political, military and religious activity, relentlessly across eleven hundred years."
She then said that she got into difficulties: "I made too many assumptions, couldn't resist the abstruse anecdote."
It appears that Herrin has set the stage as others have pointed out for a more thematic versus chronological approach in her book but what do you think she meant by the statement that she made many assumptions? And what is the "abstruse anecdote" she refers to?

Herrin indicates that the mosaic reflects some of the themes of the book including the following:
a) The remarkable literacy of Byzantine society
b) Its powerful sen..."
The role of women in Byzantine society seems more open than in the west. I was taught in seminary that women were excluded from the Weatern christian priesthood and civil authority because women were so prominent in pagan religion. This was due to the fact that women exhibited then, as they do today, charasteristics identified with the supernatural: 'reading people', clairvoyance, seeing the future in dreams. Today, these traits are seen in psychological terms, but in ancient times, they were seen as supernatural gifts. The building of shrines to the Virgin Mary and St. Irene, supported by Constantine V, show the influence of pre-Christian religions and the openness and mercy symbolized by the feminine , rather than the all-male authorianism of western Christianity.
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Scott, Judith Herrin does reference that example - sometimes it does seem as if women are more attuned to the details of human nature. Herrin also mentioned these fascinations in the Introduction referencing also her book - Women in Purple: (the two female rulers [Irene and Theodora] restored the veneration of icons in 787 and 843). Herrin hypothesizes that this fascination might have been the reason that women were excluded from the official church hierarchy. What are your feelings concerning her statement?
by
Judith Herrin



I have read that the second most important person in Constantine I court was the Head Deaconess, who looked after the 1000's of deaconesses throughout the Byzantine Empire. Orthodox theology forbids a women to be a priest because in the Eurcharist, the priest assumes the role of Christ; and since Christ on earth was a male, a female connot assume the role of Christ.
The ordained office of Deaconess and Prophetess are modern-day ways that the Eastern Church gives women prominence in the church. BTW, I am a Lutheran, but I have been to many Eastern orthodox churches and monasteries in the northern suburbs of chicago.
Very interesting Scott; but what has prompted you to visit these churches in Chicago if you are Lutheran. Are you interested in religion and/or the history of religion or churches. I find when I travel to Italy; I am enthralled with the churches and the art treasures in them but have not really visited other churches aside from those on my travels overseas (except my own parish of course). I love the statues and the art in the churches and do not see any problem (with idolatry) having them there. I think most folks can separate the statue from the spiritual entity that they are praying too; or maybe I just have a simplistic view.

"Often they describe the succession of 90 emperors, and about 125 patriarchs of Constantinople, and innu..."
I will take a shot at your question. I suspect her first draft assumed the reader knew something about Byzantium and she would make some references (abstruse anecdote) that the reader without context would appreciate. She probably had to step back and be more general and give a little more background.
Abstruse means hard to understand or obscure so I was having a hard time myself understanding what she meant by that reference.
How would a reader without context appreciate a hard to understand anecdote or is that the whole point (smile)?
I think the gist of what she meant - you are right on with Bryan. But it escaped me at the time I was reading it.
How would a reader without context appreciate a hard to understand anecdote or is that the whole point (smile)?
I think the gist of what she meant - you are right on with Bryan. But it escaped me at the time I was reading it.
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I will jump around a bit this week since we have jumped into a complex subject in order to cover as much ground as possible staying within the parameters of the assigned pages.
Chapter Two:
It appears that the Fourth Crusades and the sacking of Constantinople did much to bring about its demise as a result of other Christians shamelessly attacking the city which it never quite recovered from making it that much more vulnerable to the Ottoman Turks. I wonder if other folks reading these chapters wondered if the Fourth Crusades had not weakened Constantinople whether the Ottoman Turks would have been successful?
Some excerpts:
"In the history of the Fourth Crusade, Geoffrey Villehardouin, who died between 1212 and 1218, believed there were 400,000 inhabitants. He made clear that the city was the largest in Christendom." - page 18 (My comment - that must have made the church in Rome - none too pleased)
"To educated inhabitants like Niketas Choniates, who recorded the history of Byzantium from 1118 to 1206, Constantinople was indeed 'Queen of the queen of cities', a play on the Greek term basilissa, which means imperial, ruling and empress or queen. Its greatness derived from its beauty, marked by monuments and collections of art works, as well as its wealth. This contributed to a western sense of envy, which was fanned by Alexios IV's failure to pay the forces of the Fourth Crusade and led to the sack of the city in 1204." - pages 19 and 20
It is obvious that the city never regained its population levels after that but Herrin did say that it continued to retain its "intellectual position". It is hard to believe that the 1700 years of history and its grandeur are not preserved more by the Arabs since that is one of the reasons that they sacked it in the first place to make it the capital of Islam versus Christianity. See page 20
Also thought it was rather interesting that they referred to themselves as Rum which was the Byzantium approximation for Romans.
Chapter Two:
It appears that the Fourth Crusades and the sacking of Constantinople did much to bring about its demise as a result of other Christians shamelessly attacking the city which it never quite recovered from making it that much more vulnerable to the Ottoman Turks. I wonder if other folks reading these chapters wondered if the Fourth Crusades had not weakened Constantinople whether the Ottoman Turks would have been successful?
Some excerpts:
"In the history of the Fourth Crusade, Geoffrey Villehardouin, who died between 1212 and 1218, believed there were 400,000 inhabitants. He made clear that the city was the largest in Christendom." - page 18 (My comment - that must have made the church in Rome - none too pleased)
"To educated inhabitants like Niketas Choniates, who recorded the history of Byzantium from 1118 to 1206, Constantinople was indeed 'Queen of the queen of cities', a play on the Greek term basilissa, which means imperial, ruling and empress or queen. Its greatness derived from its beauty, marked by monuments and collections of art works, as well as its wealth. This contributed to a western sense of envy, which was fanned by Alexios IV's failure to pay the forces of the Fourth Crusade and led to the sack of the city in 1204." - pages 19 and 20
It is obvious that the city never regained its population levels after that but Herrin did say that it continued to retain its "intellectual position". It is hard to believe that the 1700 years of history and its grandeur are not preserved more by the Arabs since that is one of the reasons that they sacked it in the first place to make it the capital of Islam versus Christianity. See page 20
Also thought it was rather interesting that they referred to themselves as Rum which was the Byzantium approximation for Romans.
message 44:
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Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief
(last edited Dec 08, 2011 08:43AM)
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I guess one could ask who the dickens was Geoffrey Villehardouin - according to the following article - he was a crusader, a knight and an historian who wrote an account of the Fourth Crusades which sacked Constantinople.
Wikipedia:
Another account from wikipedia:
A little bit about the Crusades (Fourth) and what prompted the attack on Constantinople:
There was obviously a rift between the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church which undermined their strength in reacting to the Muslims at that time.
And here are his memoirs from the medieval sourcebook:
by Geoffrey De Villehardouin (no photo available)
The account by De Villehardouin puts a spin on why the sacking occurred and a double cross by the nephew of the ruler. Does it justify the sacking of the city - I will let you decide.
Here is a review of the account:
history.net
This is presumably Geoffrey:

If you want to study his chronicle, Book Rags has a study guide to accompany your reading:
Wikipedia:
Another account from wikipedia:
A little bit about the Crusades (Fourth) and what prompted the attack on Constantinople:
There was obviously a rift between the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church which undermined their strength in reacting to the Muslims at that time.
And here are his memoirs from the medieval sourcebook:

The account by De Villehardouin puts a spin on why the sacking occurred and a double cross by the nephew of the ruler. Does it justify the sacking of the city - I will let you decide.
Here is a review of the account:
history.net
This is presumably Geoffrey:

If you want to study his chronicle, Book Rags has a study guide to accompany your reading:
I am not sure what the interpretation of the schism between the Eastern Orthodox Church and the Roman Catholic Church meant to the readers of these chapters and the effects upon Constantinople but feel free to discuss this (Fourth Crusades) and the final sacking by the Ottoman Turks on this thread.
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Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief
(last edited Dec 08, 2011 08:50AM)
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Here is another account which may prove helpful:
Geoffroy de Villehardouin
Geoffroy de Villehardouin (b. 1160- d. 1213) contributed one of the major eyewitness accounts of the Fourth Crusade and the events leading to the sack of Constantinople in 1204. Geoffroy's account seems written by a man who understands the significance of the sack of Constantinople and responds in way that seeks to ascribe the crusader's actions as resulting from circumstance, rather than intention. As a result, historian Frank Marzials and others have referenced Geoffroy as the "official apologist" of the Fourth Crusade.
Geoffroy was among the first historians to write in Old French. Almost all that is known about him comes from his Memoirs, from which we get his account of the conquest of Constantinople during the Fourth Crusade.
It was in 1207 when he began recording his account of the Fourth Crusade. His account is often compared with the account of the Byzantine historian and eyewitness to the sack of Constantinople, Nicetas Choniates. Other major crusader eyewitness accounts include those of Robert of Clari and Gunther von Pairis.
For Villehardouin, the crusade had a purely religious origin and was begun with only the best of intentions. He noted, for example, that many took the cross because the indulgences were so great. It is possible that his account emphasized what has been referred to as the accidental nature of the crusade, heading to Constantinople, by way of the conquest of the Christian city of Zara, rather than its initial destination of Egypt.
He recorded his Memoirs after Pope Innocent III's displeasure with the crusaders had become known in Constantinople only three months after the crusaders captured the city.
As a result, it must be understood that he wrote as a participant in the events that Innocent III condemned and it would have been in his interests to portray events in the best possible way for the crusaders. Still, his account provides important insights into the thinking of the crusaders as they dealt with the unusual and unexpected events they encountered during the crusade.
Geoffroy de Villehardouin Memoirs [Full Text] Internet History
Sourcebooks
Fourth Crusade- Crusades-Encyclopedia
Primary Sources of the Fourth Crusade- Crusades-Encyclopedia
Crusades Chroniclers and Authors of Primary Sources- Crusades-Encyclopedia
Nicetas Choniates- Crusades-Encyclopedia
Robert of Clari- Crusades-Encyclopedia
The Sack of Constantinople- Crusades-Encyclopedia
Byzantium- Crusades-Encyclopedia
Nicolas Mesarites- Crusades-Encyclopedia
Gunther von Pairis- Crusades-Encyclopedia
Pope Innocent III- Crusades-Encyclopedia
Actual url with some other links for those interested:
You can also get his chronicles on Amazon:
Another free download:
Geoffroy de Villehardouin
Geoffroy de Villehardouin (b. 1160- d. 1213) contributed one of the major eyewitness accounts of the Fourth Crusade and the events leading to the sack of Constantinople in 1204. Geoffroy's account seems written by a man who understands the significance of the sack of Constantinople and responds in way that seeks to ascribe the crusader's actions as resulting from circumstance, rather than intention. As a result, historian Frank Marzials and others have referenced Geoffroy as the "official apologist" of the Fourth Crusade.
Geoffroy was among the first historians to write in Old French. Almost all that is known about him comes from his Memoirs, from which we get his account of the conquest of Constantinople during the Fourth Crusade.
It was in 1207 when he began recording his account of the Fourth Crusade. His account is often compared with the account of the Byzantine historian and eyewitness to the sack of Constantinople, Nicetas Choniates. Other major crusader eyewitness accounts include those of Robert of Clari and Gunther von Pairis.
For Villehardouin, the crusade had a purely religious origin and was begun with only the best of intentions. He noted, for example, that many took the cross because the indulgences were so great. It is possible that his account emphasized what has been referred to as the accidental nature of the crusade, heading to Constantinople, by way of the conquest of the Christian city of Zara, rather than its initial destination of Egypt.
He recorded his Memoirs after Pope Innocent III's displeasure with the crusaders had become known in Constantinople only three months after the crusaders captured the city.
As a result, it must be understood that he wrote as a participant in the events that Innocent III condemned and it would have been in his interests to portray events in the best possible way for the crusaders. Still, his account provides important insights into the thinking of the crusaders as they dealt with the unusual and unexpected events they encountered during the crusade.
Geoffroy de Villehardouin Memoirs [Full Text] Internet History
Sourcebooks
Fourth Crusade- Crusades-Encyclopedia
Primary Sources of the Fourth Crusade- Crusades-Encyclopedia
Crusades Chroniclers and Authors of Primary Sources- Crusades-Encyclopedia
Nicetas Choniates- Crusades-Encyclopedia
Robert of Clari- Crusades-Encyclopedia
The Sack of Constantinople- Crusades-Encyclopedia
Byzantium- Crusades-Encyclopedia
Nicolas Mesarites- Crusades-Encyclopedia
Gunther von Pairis- Crusades-Encyclopedia
Pope Innocent III- Crusades-Encyclopedia
Actual url with some other links for those interested:
You can also get his chronicles on Amazon:
Another free download:

I think it was Patricrk and it is a testament to the kind of place it must have been. Glad you like the thematic approach; I think the author is able to cover a lot of historical ground that way quickly.
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Bentley, Group Founder, Leader, Chief
(last edited Dec 08, 2011 06:04PM)
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Zeljka wrote: "Bentley wrote: "How exciting that you have been to Turkey and Istanbul. Tell us about your impressions of the Hagia Sophia as it is today and some of the restorations (especially the restorations t..."What a terrific post. Unfortunately, the last three lines were spoilers and you might want to be careful next time and just move that segment to the glossary or to one of the spoiler threads. It is not a terrible spoiler; but an itsy bitsy one none the less. Your description of the mosaics was tremendous. I wonder if the fact that the mosaics were plastered over and now revealed saved them somewhat from the elements? I guess you could argue that point either way. It sounds like a remarkable visit.

Just one example will suffice. On page 7 in the first chapter, Herrin states, "She appears as a woman enthroned, wearing a crown of battlements to represent the city walls, and holding a cornucopia to represent its wealth, an allegory in female form of male power, elucidated by Marina Warner." Who is Marina Warner? Why bring her up? What is an allegory in female form? How does a female form represent male power?
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For the week of December 5th - December 11th, we are reading approximately the first 34 pages of Byzantium by Judith Herrin.
The first week's reading assignment is:
Week One - December 5th through December 11th -> Introduction and PART ONE - Chapters ONE and TWO p. xiii - 22
Introduction ("A Different History of Byzantium") and ONE - "The City of Constantine" and TWO - "Constantinople, the Largest City of Christendom".
We will open up a thread for each week's reading. Please make sure to post in the particular thread dedicated to those specific chapters and page numbers to avoid spoilers. We will also open up supplemental threads as we did for other spotlighted books.
This book is being kicked off tomorrow, December 5th. We look forward to your participation. Amazon, Barnes and Noble, Borders and other noted on line booksellers do have copies of the book and shipment can be expedited. The book can also be obtained easily at your local library, or on your Kindle.
There is no rush and we are thrilled to have you join us. It is never too late to get started and/or to post.
Welcome,
~Bentley
TO ALWAYS SEE ALL WEEKS' THREADS SELECT VIEW ALL
REMEMBER NO SPOILERS ON THE WEEKLY NON SPOILER THREADS
Notes:
It is always a tremendous help when you quote specifically from the book itself and reference the chapter and page numbers when responding. The text itself helps folks know what you are referencing and makes things clear.
Citations:
If an author or book is mentioned other than the book and author being discussed, citations must be included according to our guidelines. Also, when citing other sources, please provide credit where credit is due and/or the link. There is no need to re-cite the author and the book we are discussing however.
Glossary
Remember there is a glossary thread where ancillary information is placed by the moderator. This is also a thread where additional information can be placed by the group members regarding the subject matter being discussed.
http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/5...