Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ

I know. I was totally shocked. Especially since the only reason I saw it was because a couple of my FB friends liked it. :(

Shannen wrote: "I know. I was totally shocked. Especially since the only reason I saw it was because a couple of my FB friends liked it. :("

Wow. I can normally handle a difference of opinion well but I don't know if I wouldn't unfriend someone for that one...

I'm going to give these people the benefit of the doubt and hope it is just a knee jerk reaction. It is so out of character for one of the people who liked it.

I already unfriended one person for all of her "I hate Obama" crap and attacking anyone who likes him. I'm all for a difference of opinion and ribbing about different political views but attacking someone is out of the question. Delete. Haha!

Yeah, I try to get along with people despite differences in opinion ... but if someone is hateful enough I'll go ahead and unfriend them. There's a difference between thoughtfully expressing your opinions and saying things that are just outright offensive/hateful.

I am wondering how many more days I will have to scroll past these pro gun ads people post on Facebook. It is getting old. This is not a time to promote your agenda people!

Agreed and agreed. One of my husband's Aussie cousins is very anti-gun and that is all he has been posting since this happened. One of his friends even went so far to say that hunting should be banned because you can buy meat in the supermarket and only rednecks hunt. Um, hello, your friend's American family are all hunters. But thanks for calling us rednecks. Are hunting rifles really the problem in all of this? Sheesh.

I grew up in the Midwest where you see dead animals hanging from the backs of every vehicle ever driven (including motorcycles!) Even though I am a vegetarian I would never tell people not to hunt or own guns (especially actual hunting guns). Having said that IMO there is NO reason on this earth that anyone except an on duty miltary or police officer should own an automatic assault weapon.

Either way I am the founding member of the church of Live and Let Live and wish there were more members! :)

Agreed again, Heidi!

Heidi (up to no good) wrote: "I am wondering how many more days I will have to scroll past these pro gun ads people post on Facebook. It is getting old. This is not a time to promote your agenda people!"

Ugh, seriously. I keep wanting to get into arguments with so many people ... For the most part I've held back, but it's been really tough.

Also, I totally agree that no one should be owning automatic weapons in their household. I understand wanting to own a rifle for hunting or a handgun for protecting yourself in emergencies, etc. but why would you need a semi-automatic in your household? I also heard that the bullets used were particularly devastating; I don't understand why anyone should own those types of bullets, either.

I am a little bothered today that someone close to me posted some rather negative comments about the State of the Union last night on FB today and when I tried to engage in friendly banter about it (I rarely if ever engage in actual political arguments on FB) this person deleted me! What a sad world where you can only be friends with people who are like minded and civility and agreeing to disagree are thrown out the window. It's times like this when I am kind of glad I chose to be child free (no offense meant to any of the great parents here). I am seriously afraid of how narrow minded this world seems at times.

I knew a guy, very smart person, (4.2 GPA as a Junior, 33 ACT score by today's standards, 221 PSAT by today's standards) who got thrown out of high school over a misunderstanding. They were playing 1313 Dead End Drive in Psychology class when he said that he would kill everyone until he got the prize. It sounds bad, but if you know the game, you'll immediately realize that killing everyone until you get the prize is exactly how you play the game. Meaning that what he said was perfectly fine in context. But someone took it absurdely far out of context, parents complained, and with seeming contempt for fact-checking, the principal expelled him. They had two psychiatric evaluations of that student that both said the same thing: Very nice, perfectly normal, good person. (Though his somewhat dark sense of humor had gotten him in trouble previously and was why they even got the psychiatric evaluations. Keep in mind: He was never a violent person. He never did anything that could be deemed "dangerous")

To this day the whole thing stinks. It was a Private school, the principal handled it in a very unofficial manner, no regard for fact-checking, and some other things that would quite frankly take too long to explain.

Needless to say, he was not happy about it. I remember him using a few swear words when he related that story.

The school system is kind of trash.

Sadly, this country has become SO divided in so many ways, not the least of which is by politics. During the election I had to put I don't know how many people on "ignore" on FB, and finally just unfriend some. I was tired of being belittled by people I thought were better than that. I was told I was going to hell, that I deserved it if any number of really bad things happened to me, etc. I don't have kids either, Heidi, and every day I am reminded why that is really not such a bad thing. I truly wonder what kind of world my nieces and nephews are inheriting. There is apparently very little compassion, compromise and common sense any more!

I 10o% agree with your last statement Melodie! Even here on GR (never in this group thank goodness) I have run into some pretty closed minded people who get downright hostile if you question a book they loved. Very sad.

Harold that sounds horrible and even though I understand the reasons for the zero tolerance policies in schools the title zero tolerance in itself is wrong IMO. There is no black and white. The world is grey and all different colors and each incident should be treated as such IMO. I think things like zero tolerance are are contributors to closed minded thinking.

I actually do have a theory about the recent spike in school shootings. See, the problem, because it's widespread, has to be societal, and I think that the reason for the shootings is the glorification of the individual. It's gotten to the point where certain people are presented as the Overman in Nietzsche's philosophy. (Freidrich Nietzsche stated that the existence of the human race is justified by its production of the Overman, a person who will have complete self-mastery) Whereas Nietzsche insisted that the Overman is a goal that the whole human race can look forward to producing, the United States instead presents the Overman as something that every single individual should become, which is something far more impossible than Nietzsche's idea.

The two parts to understand about this theory are as follows:

1)The negative impact of self-esteem.

2)The threat of egotism.

1: There was an article in the Atlantic a while back about the "cult of self-esteem". (I dislike the use of the word cult as I wish to separate these ideas from religious beliefs, as I am openly NOT anti-religious) Basically, it turned out that kids who went through sheltered lifestyles and self-esteem boosting practices such as rewarding them for even participating in a soccer tournament actually led less happy adult lives. They were insecure, more likely to be depressed, and far more indecisive. This is so prevalent that psychiatrists are actually seeing people such as this in their offices (People who say that they had a great childhood and their parents were amazing) fairly commonly. On top of that, the notion that we should value ourselves for who we are is a double-edged sword. People can get it into their heads that as long as they value themselves, it doesn't matter what others think. And this can lead to some, for lack of a more scientific word, jerks. You know the guys: They won't listen to people who tell them they're behaving badly, think they're awesome, and are utterly unbearable. Which ties into my second point.

2: Theoretically, high self-esteem should help the crime rate because people with insecurities commit more crimes, right? Science and statistics say no. Some studies were performed (Here's the link:. And yes, I've found other sources that say the same thing) that found that people with high self-esteem were more likely to commit crimes as a result of their threatened egotism. You see where I'm getting?

Essentially, those people who were raised to think they're the best thing since sliced bread are now working a desk job (Which I must stress: IS NOT A BAD JOB. But you will concede it isn't front-page material), not making as much as they'd want, might not even have jobs, and are struggling with the idea that they aren't so great, which due to their sheltered upbringing, they have no way to deal with. That guy who shot up Newtown supposedly wanted to feel power over something, perhaps to reinforce his very positive self-image, he gets on the news, people see that he's actually made an impact in the world, and boom. (I'll stop here, because I feel that those last sentences were unscientific and served very little purpose) That's my theory, anyway.

Harold being from the X Generation I have to say I am fairly disconnected from the generation following me (Millennial) and therefore can see your points. I went to a great training about generation gaps for my work and am now working in a situation where I can actually see the gap and it is wide. Basically the gist of the training was this -- my generation (X) was the first to have the "latch key" kids. We had to grow up and take reponsibility at a young age which was fine BUT when we had kids (as I said I have none myself) we didn't want them to grow up the same way so what did we do?? We over planned and over praised our kids to the point where it is difficult for them to do things for themselves. It is the first time ever where EVERYONE gets a prize and you graduate from flipping Kindergarten. I mean is that really an accompishment?? Anyway I have worked with a lot of great Millennial Generation people who are not at all like this and very similar to my work ethic (just give it to me and leave me alone I will figure it out) but my new co-worker is the epitamy of the Mil. generation and it drives me batty. She portrays herself as the best thing since sliced bread at time but yet she is constantly seeking advice and praise from my superiors. She is also best friends with her mother which to me is just plain weird (I guess this is another area where my generation screwed up because we wanted to be friends with our kids more than parents). I love my dad but he is NOT my best friend nor IMO should he be. He is my dad plain and simple. Anyway sorry to ramble but your thoughts kind of coincided with mine so there you go!

Heidi (eternal optimist, well maybe not eternal) wrote: "I am a little bothered today that someone close to me posted some rather negative comments about the State of the Union last night on FB today and when I tried to engage in friendly banter about it..."

Hi Heidi! I'm new to this YA group, but I saw this post. Sorry you had this experience. I have a group of friends and we are on opposite ends of the political spectrum. One instigates volatile conversation all the time and most of the time, everyone vents their say and no one parts company wounded. Sometimes it's rather compelling and eye-opening. I'm glad to see you've gotten some support here. So...just wanted to say hi and all that. Su

Heidi (eternal optimist, well maybe not eternal) wrote: "Harold being from the X Generation I have to say I am fairly disconnected from the generation following me (Millennial) and therefore can see your points. I went to a great training about generati..."


I am sorry if I generalized or offended any of you.

Thanks for the input, Heidi.

I wasn't offended - I hope I didn't offend anyone either as that was not my intent :)

Su wrote: "Heidi (eternal optimist, well maybe not eternal) wrote: "I am a little bothered today that someone close to me posted some rather negative comments about the State of the Union last night on FB tod..."

Hello *waves* I am used to being on the opposite side from others politically but what saddened me was that you can not even innocently joke anymore. I am always careful not to actively engage in political arguments because I see them as futile (no one is going to change their minds) so it really bothered me that this person couldn't even take my comment in fun and just deleted it! Oh well. Today is a new day :)

Heidi (eternal optimist, well maybe not eternal) wrote: "Su wrote: "Heidi (eternal optimist, well maybe not eternal) wrote: "I am a little bothered today that someone close to me posted some rather negative comments about the State of the Union last nigh..."

Good girl! Like your optimism. Su

Harold wrote: "Heidi (eternal optimist, well maybe not eternal) wrote: "Harold being from the X Generation I have to say I am fairly disconnected from the generation following me (Millennial) and therefore can se..."

No offense here. Being a "baby boomer" myself the differences between these generations are interesting to me. My youngest brother would probably be considered a generation X kid as he is 16 years younger than me, and there are vast differences between the way he was brought up and the way my sister and I were by the same parents. All this stuff with not stepping on little Johnny's self-esteem and giving everyone a prize for just showing up is not doing any of these kids any favors. When they're faced with the real world they have no idea how to respond when they find out the sun doesn't rise & set in their ass! I have no doubt it's why the "wackos" are on the rise. (I'm not looking to offend anyone either. Just expressing the way I see things.)

Harold wrote: "I actually do have a theory about the recent spike in school shootings. See, the problem, because it's widespread, has to be societal, and I think that the reason for the shootings is the glorifica..."

Harold - thanks for this. I couldn't agree more. In fact, I'm thinking about printing it off and pinning it up at my daughter's school! This very issue has dominated our week and I have had to deal with parents who think their children can do no wrong... even though their kids are the biggest bullies in school.

My oldest daughter (Grade 8) is unfortunately in a class where 2 bullies dominate and the school does nothing about it. When the bullies disrupt the class, the entire class has to pay. When they started cyber-bullying kids, a police officer came in and talked to the entire class. Not once have either of these two individuals been forced to take responsibility for their actions. It's always the class as a whole that pays.

I don't think parents or teachers are doing their kids any favours by adopting the "herd" mentality. Allow children to set their own goals, encourage them to work hard to achieve those goals, and cheer them on while they do it. Their sense of accomplishment will far out last any award they receive. But by the same token, if a child is abusive toward others they should be made to take responsibility for their own actions; otherwise, there is no incentive to curb the behaviour.

In my opinion, people need to stop thinking they are raising kids and realize they are shaping adults.

S.M. wrote: "Harold wrote: "I actually do have a theory about the recent spike in school shootings. See, the problem, because it's widespread, has to be societal, and I think that the reason for the shootings i..."

I'm flattered!

I also fully agree with your statements. Very eloquently put as well.

I agree Melodie and S.M.! Melodie I am a Gen Xer and there was only room for 1st -3rd place for us when we were growing up but I think we are also the ones who invented this everyone gets a prize BS for our kids. I am really scared for these younger people who think anyone can be famous because of all these reality tv shows and can barely spell because they text everything. I mean they even stopped teaching cursive in school and some don't even teach how to read the hands on the clock (my 16 old niece was never taught and still doesn't read them!) The lack of real life skills being taught anymore is frightening.

S.M. what you mentioned is another issue that has been passed by my generation to this current one -- no one ever does anything wrong anymore. When I was growing up if the school called the house my dad would have said "what did you do?" and put 100% faith in what the school authorities were reporting by now if the school calls it is like "my kid didn't do that you are a bad teacher" What?? How did this happen!

Haha that is so true, Heidi. The public school system in my hometown is like really academically competitive and it seems like a lot of parents blame teachers when their kids don't get straight A+'s ... It's crazy.

Brigid *Flying Kick-a-pow!* wrote: "Haha that is so true, Heidi. The public school system in my hometown is like really academically competitive and it seems like a lot of parents blame teachers when their kids don't get straight A+'..."

Crazy and sad Brigid. :(

Yeah. >.<

Heidi and Brigid - the reason these bullies are still in school is because their parents refuse to believe their child does any wrong. They are confrontational with the school and with other parents.

On a personal note, I instructed my daughter to deal with the bullies herself if need be since the school can't/won't. So... two days ago one of the bullies swiped her drill in Shop Class (this particular 14 year old boy is almost 6 feet tall) and walked away with it. My daughter marched after him, grabbed her drill back and smacked him in the back of the head. I've been waiting to get a call from the school, but none so far... Not that I condone my daughter hitting anyone... but.. she has put up with a lot from this kid.

S.M. wrote: "Heidi and Brigid - the reason these bullies are still in school is because their parents refuse to believe their child does any wrong. They are confrontational with the school and with other paren..."

Wow. It is depressing to think that you have to teach your kids to stand up to a bully S.M. because the school/parents condone it.

Yikes, Heidi (and everyone else who suffered from FB garbage). Seriously sad. Then again, in Kenya, people from different political parties actually have killed each other, and not just rhetorically!

And yeah, I think it is so warped that kids 'graduate' from Kindergarten. Seriously!? They learned how to hold a crayon and they get a certificate for that?!

Needless to say, that doesn't go down in my home. And yeah, I have 2 kids. And they make their own breakfasts and pack their own lunches and learn to say yes please, thank you and stuff my grandparents would be happy with.

And I tend to support the teachers, unless they are clearly being stupid, which fortunately has only happened once.

I've seen problems with both teachers and parents. My sister-in-law is a teacher and she just dreads some of the parents due to their blindness where their child's behavior is involved. Or their complete lack of caring for their child.

I've also had friends who would want to know when their child is in trouble and teachers have neglected to notify them. One of their children hit another child during recess and the only reason my friend found out is because her child accidentally let it slip. Some parents want the school to raise their children and some schools want to raise our children. It's really a tough situation.

I have three children, two of which are in elementary school. I dread the middle school years already.

Good for you Vered! And yeah - physical violence is obviously a lot worse than being unfriended on FB! Scary!

I want to update this thread with the latest news of my daughter's classroom woes... The school hired a therapist to come in and talk to her classroom. Not that I disagree with hiring a therapist to talk to kids, but when school funds are being spent to indirectly deal with two bullies who dominate, there's a problem.

Has anyone else heard of school hiring a therapist for this? Am I just really old? What happened to detention, suspension and if all else fails, you're out?

S.M. wrote: "I want to update this thread with the latest news of my daughter's classroom woes... The school hired a therapist to come in and talk to her classroom. Not that I disagree with hiring a therapist ..."

I don't know if I agree with the therapist idea either, (Though I give them some credit for trying) but the issue with expulsion is that, from my understanding of it, it's absurdly hard to do in a public school setting. I knew a guy who was caught in the hallway high on drugs (This was a while ago, I should probably add) and all they did was suspend him from playing sports. You basically have to TRY to be expelled in a public school. (Keep in mind I don't work at a public school, so I don't have a very in-depth knowledge of the inner workings. I could very well be dead wrong)

The other issue is that it isn't always easy catching bullies in the act because so few people talk about it.

Several schools in my area have therapists from the local counseling agency come to the schools and have groups and individual counseling but I am not sure if it is anti bulling specific.

Harold in my area the public school would expel a kid for showing up high

Heidi (eternal optimist, well maybe not eternal) wrote: "Several schools in my area have therapists from the local counseling agency come to the schools and have groups and individual counseling but I am not sure if it is anti bulling specific."

As I say, I don't really have a problem with a therapist coming to a school to talk with kids. In this particular case, a therapist was hired for a specific class and it was the first time the school ever hired one. The services of the therapist were not offered to anyone else in the school... it was strictly one class. I asked my daughter how it went and she didn't feel it was a positive experience. They had a "sharing circle" and passed a ball around and the person with the ball could talk... guess who had the ball the most?! Anyway...

Harold - being high in school should be automatic dismissal. I know quite a few elementary schools in Nova Scotia have "pushers" showing up at lunch and recess selling skin tattoos soaked in LDS to get the kids hooked. Apparently, taking lunch money from kids who have become junkies is a good business.

S.M. wrote: "Heidi (eternal optimist, well maybe not eternal) wrote: "Several schools in my area have therapists from the local counseling agency come to the schools and have groups and individual counseling bu..."

Guess it's just my area, then.

S.M. that does seem a little excessive. Harold it is sad to me that that student wasn't at least suspended from school.

Harold wrote: "S.M. wrote: "Heidi (eternal optimist, well maybe not eternal) wrote: "Several schools in my area have therapists from the local counseling agency come to the schools and have groups and individual ..."

Where are you from, Harold? The schools I have been referring to are fairly rural. I know in Canada there are some city schools where drugs are more prominent and therefore more difficult to deal with.

Yikes! At my kids' school, if a kid is caught even with alcohol on school grounds, he's out. Counselling a whole class is something that is done if there's been a tragedy or other trauma that has impacted everyone (a kid in class dies in an accident or something). Bullying is handled by the bullies being called in for a 'chat' and a warning, and if it persists, parents are called in. Seems to work.

Heidi (eternal optimist, well maybe not eternal) wrote: "S.M. that does seem a little excessive. Harold it is sad to me that that student wasn't at least suspended from school."

I don't know that he wasn't suspended from school. All I know is that he wasn't expelled.

My knowledge is limited at best.

S.M. wrote: "Harold wrote: "S.M. wrote: "Heidi (eternal optimist, well maybe not eternal) wrote: "Several schools in my area have therapists from the local counseling agency come to the schools and have groups ..."

Stevens Point, Wisconsin.

It's a small town, which honestly makes it all the more surprising. (I should note that it was a high school student, not an elementary school one)

I actually found out what happened. It turns out that, as a condition of staying in school, they have to go through a kind of drug and alcohol course. So basically they're trying to fight it, just not by expelling people.

I do not love that I have not won one Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ First Reads Giveaway since a month after I joined this site in June 2009! Blurg! It's fixed I tell you. Some people win a bunch of books.

Heidi (eternal optimist, well maybe not eternal) wrote: "I do not love that I have not won one Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ First Reads Giveaway since a month after I joined this site in June 2009! Blurg! It's fixed I tell you. Some people win a bunch of books."

I don't know what that is.

Heidi (eternal optimist, well maybe not eternal) wrote: "I do not love that I have not won one Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ First Reads Giveaway since a month after I joined this site in June 2009! Blurg! It's fixed I tell you. Some people win a bunch of books."

I won one shortly after I joined and then nothing for a long time. Then about a year and a half ago or so I won like 3 or 4 in a short time. Nothing since.

Harold you can enter to win free books here on Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ -- have you never done so??

Heidi (eternal optimist, well maybe not eternal) wrote: "Harold you can enter to win free books here on Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ -- have you never done so??"

I have to admit I didn't know about the "first reads"... and I'm an author. HFC.