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This thread is to discuss services and promo tactics. Got a question about a site? Ask it here. Got a suggestion for a new topic? Post here. The point of this thread will be to keep an open dialogue about promotion services without cluttering up the data threads.

That's a good idea, Christina (keeping data and discussion separate).

Thanks, Anna

On that note, I'd like to ask everyone to only post the data requested on the other threads. While the thanks are appreciated, it does tend to make it hard to filter through the information.

I will try to update the free and paid list main posts about once a week, adding the new sites mentioned and taking away any that are found to be defunct.

Just wanted to mention something about the Facebook groups thread: although the actual numbers vary, Facebook can and will temporarily suspend user accounts for "joining too many groups too fast" or "posting in too many groups too fast". I've seen it happen a few times to friends who posted to 30-50 groups in a day, or joined more than 10 groups in a day. So you might need to pace yourself on both joining groups and posting in them so your account stays active :).

I've heard that too! Which is why I've been reluctant to even join any.

But why would a person want to join 30-50 groups in a day or even 10 in a day?

Mostly to spam their own book/product/service/etc, which is likely the same reason Facebook set up a system to weed them out.

Yes, I've never actually had problems with Facebook but I've heard that 1) you shouldn't join too many groups at once, and 2) you shouldn't post too often, e.g., on promo groups or a Facebook takeover--try to space it out every 5-10 minutes.

When I'm posting ads on the Facebook promotional groups I try to do a couple at a time and vary the wording. I've never had any problems. Some of the groups, if you post on one, will offer you the chance to share the post on multiple groups. I tried that and didn't have any problem.

I also have to say that I get *some* results from this kind of free advertising on FB, but it's time-consuming and we're talking maybe a couple dozen free downloads a day for me. I tend to get diminishing returns as well--the second time around I get fewer downloads on a book I've already advertised on them. So I use them, but not all the time.

That being said, the only thing they cost you is time, and a few dozen downloads is better than no downloads. I've also networked with some other authors on them, and found out about promo events to join.

In another thread Alex wrote: "Something to note with bookhippo, if you can't provide a link to a professional editor, they won't promote your book."

I posted a link to my editor's Facebook page. She's not professional per se, and it wasn't a website. They still accepted my request and promoted my book. (Heck, I am not even from the UK, although it sounded like I might have had to be.)

I believe it says they are less likely to promote without an editor. I always submit without one and they've ran books of mine in the past. I was half tempted to leave a link to the Kindle Fire sales page seeing as I catch more issues using text to speech than any set of human eyes. ;-p

Copying Anna's comment over here. Remember everyone, keep the discussions in this thread only:

Anna wrote: Something I do, is to give sites a mark out of 10 and tie that up with the genre I advertised it under.

Two of my books can be Romance or Historical or Historical Romance or ... and so it goes on. After I feel I have exhausted all the likelihood of appealing to Romance readers, I shift it under Historical and so on. (Am I making sense?) And I give each marks out of 10 for the number of books sold.

I often forget!!!! But I'm going to try to remember to do that - I think it helps.

Alex wrote: "I've submitted a few times without success, but it could just be a lack of luck with me. "
Yeah, same here. I'm thinking they ran my book once or twice, but I've submitted more often than that.

Oh drat! Did I put all that bumph in the wrong thread - sorry! :(

Anna Faversham wrote: "Oh drat! Did I put all that bumph in the wrong thread - sorry! :("

No worries! I just want to keep the info threads clear.

Are they UK reviews? I've only ever seen them select books with UK reviews.

Alex wrote: "I've just tried bookhippo again with a title that now has 6 reviews, we'll see whether it gets accepted this time. Maybe it was a lack of reviews that kept me from being selected before."

And

Christina wrote: "Are they UK reviews? I've only ever seen them select books with UK reviews."

When I applied for Dax, it was still in preorder and I had no reviews at all.

Alex wrote: "Christina wrote: "Are they UK reviews? I've only ever seen them select books with UK reviews."

I've got 4 reviews in the UK, 2 x 5 and 2 x 3 and the 3's essentially say it wasn't their style or ty..."

Good luck with Book Hippo Alex. When does your promo go live?

Like you, I can't afford a professional editor or proofreader (I used to be the one doing the proofreading for my previous employer :-)), and despite having managed to fluke a single promo with Book Hippo last October, they've ignored all of my subsequent submissions.

The publication that was featured had no reviews, and a link to my Wordpress blog as my 'editor's' website. I've just submitted another request to them for a freebie I'm offering over the next few days, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it'll be considered. If they do publicise your book, it'll be worth it, as I had about 100 downloads, almost all in the UK, the day that they plugged my book.

As for Facebook groups devoted specifically to Kindle promotion, I've spent a lot of time trying to plug offers on there, but with nothing to show for it. I have had more success through dropping the occasional promotional post into an interest group where members' tastes overlap with the themes of my writing, so you might find that approach more fruitful, although engaging in such groups and building up a following is proving to be glacially slow.

Just to let you all know, many of the free promo sites and a few of the paid do not have a requirement for number of reviews. Even more have no requirement if the book is new. I've done a fair bit of promoting of my new books and I will say that I've seen an increase in continued interest over books that I just let out on their own. Heck, I've even managed to snag a couple of reviews that way, so I'm on my way to being able to use the better sites in the future. :-)

are there any ways to promote your book that are worth the time and effort?

Probably the best way is to get into book butterfly or a website like that and pay like 200 dollars for a promotion that guarantees 600 sales or something like that. If you don't get the sales, they give you the percentage of sales you didn't get back off the price.

Ma-boy wrote: "Probably the best way is to get into book butterfly or a website like that and pay like 200 dollars for a promotion that guarantees 600 sales or something like that. If you don't get the sales, the..."

I'd caution against this as any service that guarantees results by employing tactics that can backfire against the author. Also, the owner is notorious for harassing authors on public message boards and the claims made on the site (such as millions of app downloads) are easily refuted (one such app shows less than 500 downloads in the Play store, despite this million claim).

V.A. wrote: "are there any ways to promote your book that are worth the time and effort?"

The point of the promotion results threads will be to show what is worth paying for in what genre. Until we have more statistics posted, you can check the best advertising websites thread in the archived Author Resources folder. It's the first pinned post and you'll see a great discussion on what has worked for various members. Just remember, everyone will have different results.

Hey Christina, Can you point me to the post with all the data? I found it before but now I can't locate it. Sorry for putting this here. Thanks

This is the archived site: /topic/show/...

You'll find a lot of results if you scan the comments. Just keep in mind that some info is outdated, which is why we've started the new threads to collect and keep current promo sites.

I was told that a useful promotion tactic is to do a press release and that you should always have some form of social media like Twitter. As for promotion sites, be ready to pay and read website reviews. Finding a free service is nearly impossible and you need to have your book available on Amazon to use most of them. When it comes to promotion, it is a long and grueling process.

Ariel wrote: "As for promotion sites, be ready to pay and read website reviews."

Which is why we've set up an area for our authors to give stats for the sites we use. We've got testimonials for both paid and free sites as well as breakdowns by genre.

As to marketing tactics, we've got a whole folder of info (and even more in the archive that we'll be adding later).

Hey Marie, in regards to your riffle promo, I'm guessing they didn't refund then? 507 seems awfully low for $50 even if you didn't have other ads running and somehow, I doubt more than half the clicks on a freebie didn't end up downloading unless they realized they already had the book.

Christina wrote: "Hey Marie, in regards to your riffle promo, I'm guessing they didn't refund then? 507 seems awfully low for $50 even if you didn't have other ads running and somehow, I doubt more than half the cli..."

I agree, Christina. Riffle did not refund, but they did offer a complimentary listing in the future. I figured they would have a bigger audience size for the price they were asking.

I swear the price is arbitrary anymore. I was just looking over my numbers this month and I got about 200 more downloads with a $10 My Book Cave promo than with a $40 Book Gorilla promo.

Where can I get the most comprehensive list of best promos and best advice for new book launching? (including other threads or book on subject) Members help would be greatly appreciated. My genre is Historic/Romantic/Supernatural.
Thank you.
David

David wrote: "Where can I get the most comprehensive list of best promos and best advice for new book launching? (including other threads or book on subject) Members help would be greatly appreciated. My genre i..."

This group houses two and a half years of advice. Using the search function is your best bet.

Book launch info will be found in the marketing folder. For information on promo sites, keep an eye on this folder. But as always, there is no one size fits all.

I am humbled, astonished and embarrassed to report on another advertising fiasco:
I spent $50 on a Bookgorilla (owned by Windwalker Media) promo, priced my debut Sci-Fi novel (20 reviews/4+Star Rating) at $.99 and sold 11 books ($4.55 per download).
**They advertise a Free Author Page to subscribers, but I entered my data 9 times over a two week period and it never took. I emailed them 4 times regarding this “glitch� and after waiting more than 5 weeks, finally got my author page without entering my data again (meaning they had it all along, just didn’t publish it).
**Kindle Nation Daily (also owned by Windwalker Media) charges $120 to promote your work. However, after my Bookgorilla experience, I will not be contributing to Stephen Windwalker’s retirement fund.
**I have Unsubscribed from both these sites.

I am finding that running a book as free is helping. I don't make any, but it's getting my book out there.

G.G. wrote: "In another thread Alex wrote: "Something to note with bookhippo, if you can't provide a link to a professional editor, they won't promote your book."

I posted a link to my editor's Facebook page. ..."

Does the editor's name haven to be mentioned somewhere in the book? Or can we merely link to the editor? She's not a professional but she does work as an editor.
I find this very strange since traditionally published authors don't have the editors name on their books.

Shirani wrote: "G.G. wrote: "In another thread Alex wrote: "Something to note with bookhippo, if you can't provide a link to a professional editor, they won't promote your book."

I posted a link to my editor's Fa..."

Book Hippo ask you to provide a link to your editor's website. It's very frustrating.

Shirani wrote: "G.G. wrote: "In another thread Alex wrote: "Something to note with bookhippo, if you can't provide a link to a professional editor, they won't promote your book."

I posted a link to my editor's Fa..."

I have no idea if they check inside the book. Mine has a mention of her.

FWIW Book Hippo featured my book when I wrote my own name in the editor field.

A few promotion deals right now:

Read Freely

Read Freely says: "For the first 3 days of August, we'll be giving you a 25% discount on our Platinum level package. This is the package which positions your book at the top of the newsletter, allows you choose the exact date it is promoted, allows you have a one-day promotion, and lets you see the other books scheduled to be promoted on your chosen date. All of this usually costs $10, but now, until August 3, will only cost $7.50.

The Gold level package is still available at $6."

Bookzio:

Bookzio says: "Use this coupon code on August 1st, 2nd, 3rd,4th or 5th (before midnight on the 5th) when you order a STANDARD or PREMIUM book promotion, and you'll get 15% OFF your total price (NOTE: This includes all addons EXCEPT 4xFacebook Boost - if you wish to order that addon please contact us first).

15OFFAUGUST "

Interesting! I saw the Book Zio one, but I don't recall seeing read freely. Gonna go look that up because I've got a biggie scheduled for September.

I'm a coupon fanatic lol. No point in spending extra money when you don't have to! I will share here when I see these codes and try to remember to delete when the deal is over :).

Apparently I'm not getting the read freely email. I just fixed that. It's a pain because I've just started up a separate email account for the newsletter in a desperate attempt to organize my inbox, but now some sites are confused. :-)

Marie Silk wrote: "I'm a coupon fanatic lol. No point in spending extra money when you don't have to! I will share here when I see these codes and try to remember to delete when the deal is over :)."

There's a bunch of discount codes available through Paid Author as well.

Marie Silk wrote: "I'm a coupon fanatic lol. No point in spending extra money when you don't have to! I will share here when I see these codes and try to remember to delete when the deal is over :)."

Thanks for the tipoffs Marie. Have you ever visited the Aussie site paidauthor.com? They seem to have quite a few coupon codes on offer over there, as well as a number of videos detailing results with different book promotion sites this year.

Christina, would I be right in guessing that you've got an SIAFBB event planned for September?

Christina wrote: "Marie Silk wrote: "I'm a coupon fanatic lol. No point in spending extra money when you don't have to! I will share here when I see these codes and try to remember to delete when the deal is over :)..."

Ah, just seen that you've spotted the Paid Author offer too :-)

H.E. wrote: "Christina, would I be right in guessing that you've got an SIAFBB event planned for September? "

No the fall event is in October. We haven't set a date yet. My September deal is a five year anniversary deal for my fist series.

On another thread, Chris wrote: Hi all~
Here's my question. A free promotion is great and all but if you get a thousand downloads, it only counts in the "FREE" category on Amazon. How does that help you in the long run?

I understand if you have a series of books, and you launch the first on for free then, if the readers like it, it translates to other sales. But I did a free promotion for one day and it was a very successful day but it didn't cross over to my other book sales. It seems to me that giving books away for free is like giving music away for free.

It's exacerbating the problem of intellectual work being diminished to nothing worth paying for. Please, tell me if I'm wrong. I'm open to hearing counter points but I don't see how giving away 1000 copies of your book for free is a good thing.

.99 is bad enough. All the work that goes into writing a novel is worth that and frankly I'm a bit over people asking for things for free.

Go ahead and pile on. I'm expecting a back lash. I've had to deal with this issue for the last 25 years as a songwriter. People always use the "exposure" tagline and frankly I don't agree. Thanks for the soap box. LoL.

Have a great day everyone.
c

Hi Chris, I've moved this to the discussion thread as the promo results threads are strictly for listing our results. Also, no one is going to 'pile on' as negativity is against our rules (as such, I'll ask you not to court arguments, but be open to discussion).

But to answer your question, a successful free run leads to more sales of the book that was free. Yes, it sounds illogical, but by ranking high in the free store, your book is getting better placement for when it goes back to being paid. Likewise, a book that is also enrolled in select will be available for Kindle Unlimited. Many KU members will borrow books, even books that are free because they'd rather not clutter their device with freebies. This of course helps because even while a book is free, page reads are paid and KU borrows will hike your paid rank.

Hi Christina~
Thanks for putting this where it needed to be. Didn't mean to invite an argument. What I meant was exactly what you said, start a discussion.

I understand the process and the hike in paid rank but it seems counter intuitive to the overall goal. Thanks for taking the time to give your experience. I've been following your threads about the results you've had.

Chris wrote: "I understand the process and the hike in paid rank but it seems counter intuitive to the overall goal."

Yep, I agree. It doesn't make much sense, but this is what I've seen. My first book, a first in series that is now nearly 5years old, has been downloaded for free more than any of my other books. It has also seen more paid sales than all the other books combined and most of those sales happen in the weeks after a high ranking freebie.

Now I will add for full disclosure: it's getting harder to pull the numbers I used to get. That particular book used to net me anywhere from 300-2800 freebies per day with zero advertising back in 2012/2013. Today, I'm running the same book completely unadvertised and I've got a whopping six downloads so far. The sharp decline in numbers can easily be attributed to the sheer volume of freebies out there now. But for me, that's just another reason to do limited time discounts instead of a permafree, and to space out my paid promos.

Christina wrote:
The sharp decline in numbers can easily be attributed to the sheer volume of freebies out there now.

Exactly! There are so many people doing free book promotions that the benefits are only benefits to the people getting the content for free. There has to be a new way to boost rankings at the same time elevating the process. For, why would we all continue to work so hard to deliver books if there is no payoff. Literally... no pay-off.

The paid promotional avenues you (Christina) posted such as MyBookCave and those like it are the way to approach this. Fifteen dollar or even fifty-dollars is not a lot of money to spend to promote your book.

People (writers) have to see it as an investment in their work. I believe if someone doesn't want to spend $50.00 to advertise their book, then maybe the book isn't worth advertising. Just a question, not an accusation or judgment. I understand that a $700 Bookbub campaign would be out of reach for most of us but $100 - $200 dollars a month set aside for book promotion doesn't seem outlandish.

Do away with all this giving your work away for free. Especially in light of the diminishing returns. Just my .02. And thank you for the great discussion and insights! Have a wonderful week. I hope it's a productive one for everyone.

Hey,

Not sure if this is the exact place to ask this, but it does somewhat have to do with promotion. I am in the end-stages of my latest project but I want to be able to post it on here. Is there a way to correctly post a book on here and Amazon to get pre-order reviews for the book? I haven't finished it yet, but I am looking for beta readers now and want the reviews to help fuel the sales of the book when I release it sometime in the next month or so. Thanks for any advice!

Erica;-)