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I don't think the price is affected in the other markets at all during a countdown.

Okay, that’s what I figured. I did pretty good in Canada with BargainBooksy and MyBookCave last summer when my book was on promo for 99 cents (but not on a countdown deal as I wasn’t KDP.) Hopefully I’ll make up for those missed sales by more people in the USA and UK buying this time from the added countdown heat. We’ll see. It’s all experimentation at this point.

Marie Silk wrote: "Just went to set up a free promo of one of my books and this is what KDP now says about the fields where you enter the dates:

Create a new Free Book Deal
Choose when the promotion starts and ends...."

This is actually the same as it always was. You would select the days you want to run the promo on the calendar. When you selected your remaining three days, it took them, plus the two days you have already used and showed you that you have no days left. It's always shown you how many days remain.

Amie, the Kindle countdown deals only operate for people LIVING in the US or UK. If you live elsewhere and buy from the US, you don't get the discount. Don't ask me why not - ask Amazon.

Christina wrote: This is actually the same as it always was.

I meant the part that KDP says about the end date of the free promo. With the language they use below, it sounds like the promotion will not run at all on the end date.

"For example, if you enter a start date of January 3 and an end date of January 7, your deal would run on January 3, 4, 5, and 6."

But after I entered the dates Mar 16-18, it appears that my promotion will run all three dates (which is what I want).

Marie Silk wrote: "Christina wrote: This is actually the same as it always was.

I meant the part that KDP says about the end date of the free promo. With the language they use below, it sounds like the promotion wil..."

It's just a to vs through wording issue. The day you select as the end date will be the day it runs through, meaning the price changes back at midnight (which is the next day). I don't know why they added the wording, but perhaps people were selecting two days expecting one, thinking in terms of hotel nights instead of full days.

I have a suggestion for what I think may be a new topic. Maybe it has already been addressed. Let me know if it has, but here is my request - How many of you are frustrated when trying to promote your book(s) that promoters, promoting agencies, and the like, want money up-front rather than taking a piece of the earnings. They never want to put skin into the game, leaving you with all the risk, and you never know whether they are just taking your money and really not doing anything at all to promote. I feel we should all band together and not give promoters any business if they are not willing to work on commission rather than "money up-front."

Alex wrote: "There was a site years ago, at least five, that was pretty good, it used tracking links to monitor how many sales were generated by books advertised through their site and charged 25% of the income earned by those books so anyone who used the site was guaranteed to make a profit."

Likely they are one of the ones who were shut down for fraud as guarantees of any kind tend to involve shady activity.

As for your comment, Jake, the business model is that you are paying for a service, not specifically the results. There are factors they can point to, such as subscriber size, average downloads, etc, but like I said above, guarantee of results strays into click farms and rank manipulation. There are some cost per click sites, but again,there is no guarantee that those who click will buy.

Christina wrote: "Alex wrote: "There was a site years ago, at least five, that was pretty good, it used tracking links to monitor how many sales were generated by books advertised through their site and charged 25% ..."

I keep seeing this term "click farm" and have no idea what it refers to. Can someone enlighten me? I am gathering it is a way to artificially drive up numbers, but how on earth can that be done artificially? And, trust me, I have no intention of practicing it....I'm just curious and am hoping one of you veterans will respond. :)

Click farms are literally people employed to click things, typically for pennies per hundred/thousand clicks, and typically in impoverished countries. They are used for everything from boosting the apparent effectiveness of pay per click advertising to farming resources that can be sold in online games, though from what I gather, the latter is getting better about shutting them down. Several book promotion websites have been shut down for using them, though several managed to gain enough legit customers through their use of click farms that they are still around today and are considered legit.

Christina wrote: "Click farms are literally people employed to click things, typically for pennies per hundred/thousand clicks, and typically in impoverished countries. They are used for everything from boosting the..."

Interesting. Thank you. We live in a crazy world. :(

Yes. I won't dispute this. Unfortunately, when you want to go with a reputable promotion company, you pay up front. Sometimes they're great and you make your money back and more. Sometimes you don't and it sucks. But yeah, I've gotten emails from people promising results for promotions and offering up such and such amount of reviews. But really, none of that is legit. You cannot promise anything in this industry. It's why I would never use Bookbutterfly again. They were all promises and when they didn't deliver (this was years ago, so they might have changed their model) they blamed it on me for once upon a time having a freebie, which is ridiculous. Do your research into whatever promotion company you give your money to. That's why we have these posts and these folders. They're here to help. LISTEN to them!

J. wrote: "It's why I would never use [redacted] again. They were all promises and when they didn't deliver (this was years ago, so they might have changed their model) they blamed it on me for once upon a time having a freebie, which is ridiculous. "

This one may have been using click farms. At one point they were able to get the downloads, but the lack of any residual sales was telling. I used them once on recommendation from another site and it was a mistake. They have a guarantee of the number of sales/downloads, but now their guarantee is no longer 'money back' and they have always been argumentative (which is why I removed the name above. They have a tendency to go looking and pick fights).

Huh......interesting.

The only thing we can do is not use the sites that don't produce results, which seems to be growing. I'm not getting the results I used to from advertising anymore. Somebody will have to come up with a better way to market. Social media doesn't seem to do much. Giving away a first in series has limited results. BookBub still seems to be the holy grail.

D. wrote: "BookBub still seems to be the holy grail."

Gonna be slightly controversial here: I think this is the problem: perception that BB is the be all end all when in truth, they're taking as much a hit as everyone else. It's just that when your list of subscribers is in the millions, it's not as obvious that they aren't getting the same results they did just two years ago. Yet their prices rise as well.

It makes sense. E-readers aren't a novelty anymore. Casual readers aren't gobbling up free and cheap books on a daily basis and there are now 5 times as many books available as there was 5 years ago. But costs are up, so we're going to see prices rising on all websites.

Yes, like D suggests, using sites that aren't effective is going to help, but deciding what's effective and what isn't varies from person to person. A lot of folks are willing to take a financial hit when advertising a 99¢ promo because they get a better rank. Personally, I'm not one of those people. I am, however, someone who will pay to promote a free book if I think I'm going to recoup my cost with additional sales. Others aren't willing to do that.

My opinion: track price increases. I've seen some sites that have jumped wildly here recently and I'm hesitant, whereas others have had gradual increases that are in line with general cost of living increases. Still others that I used to tout as effective for the price, I've written off completely. Much like anything else, your milage will vary, but remember,the market is dynamic and there will always be readers, even if the casual reader drops off.

My feeling is we are between a rock and a hard place here. If you do not promote you do not sell, but if you spend money on most of the sites, you don't recover your money. If you are discounting to 99c you need an awful lot of sales to recover a fee that might be $50. That might be possible with a popular genre, such as romance, but I doubt it is likely in some of the others. How many people have made a profit from such paid promotions, and if so, in what genre? I suspect there needs to be a new approach, and whoever finds it will do very well, but unfortunately I can't think of what it is.

Ian wrote: "My feeling is we are between a rock and a hard place here. If you do not promote you do not sell, but if you spend money on most of the sites, you don't recover your money. If you are discounting t..."

I agree with you, Ian! Paying to give books away isn't a longterm option. Maybe in the first few months after the release.

So, when I released my last book, I put all of my back logged books at 99c. I sold hundreds of books like that and all because I was using promotions and expecting my sales to eat up my back log and abuse KU. I have made my money back and more by this point. I agree that people should not put their books at 99c every month or two and expect to earn money. Sometimes, you have to play it right. so when I release a new book, every 4 months or so, I do that. I put all my books on sale. I advertise in my NL and through swaps and I buy at least one promotion for each and a few more for the NR. Occasionally I participate in a group promotion and that helps too.

Over marketing a book can be counterproductive. Using overly expensive promotions and expecting them to deliver with interest isn't always possible. If you ask them what their results are for your particular genre, they will answer you. I've done that and weighed the pros and cons that way.

And paying to give your books away for free has gotten me some very loyal readers and some great reviews and helped my overall exposure. Especially in my series. Just saying. There is a lot more to marketing your book than paid promotions. And if your book isn't selling like crazy, take a look at your blurbs and covers. That's exactly what I'm doing with my series now.

Ian wrote: "My feeling is we are between a rock and a hard place here. If you do not promote you do not sell, but if you spend money on most of the sites, you don't recover your money. If you are discounting t..."

It is possible to recoup the advertising cost on a 99¢ promo, and genre will help, but it's not necessarily the only factor. I only promote 99¢ sales on box sets (fantasy and sci-fi, so yes, popular genres). When I do a freebie on my first in series and lower the price of the following books to 99¢, I only have to promote the free book and still see sales, but occasionally I'll use a service like Book Barbarian to promote the second as well (though their prices as well have increased this year).

But like J says, you can't over promote.

So this is super odd! Has anyone ever had their Kindle Countdown deal enter it's final couple of hours and Amazon not have it showing on ANY of their available Kindle Countdown Deal lists?

I can't find mine anywhere now, not under Women's Fiction, Historical Fiction, Victorian Romance, or anything. So odd as my countdown clock is still showing like 50 minutes left to go.

Amie, no, but if you live in NZ you can't even check because since Amazondoes not make discounts available here, they don't even let you know they are on, even if you buy from the US store.

Amie wrote: "So this is super odd! Has anyone ever had their Kindle Countdown deal enter it's final couple of hours and Amazon not have it showing on ANY of their available Kindle Countdown Deal lists?

I can't..."

I have never thought to check Amazon for countdowns before. Glad to see your promo was a great success though :).

Thanks, Marie. I was really nervous on Saturday when my double feature started kind of slow. I had booked it on St. Patrick's Day (unawares) and thought, "Oh, noooooo!"

Well, I am a newbie to all these. I'm just following.

Genevieve wrote: "Off topic.

Stay on topic, please. If you want to offer feedback to someone on their web site, contact them via a PM or see if there is contact information on their website. Thanks.

Are book contests worth the $$?

Gigi wrote: "Are book contests worth the $$?"

I think some contests are worth the $$ and some aren't. Some contests have little value because they haven't been around long, or they are not discerning--they have not established a reputation. Some give awards too easily, so they don't mean much. But contests that have a history, a reputation for excellence, such as the Hugo, Kirkus, Newberry, and Indiefab mean a whole lot to agents, publishers, librarians, educators, booksellers, reviewers. A good contest weeds out mediocre work, showcases exceptional quality, and provides promotion. It is much less expensive than advertising.

Book contests would be a new topic. You'll want to start that in the Marketing folder.

Check the Alliance of Independent Authors site for ratings of contests.

So I know we've been discussing what *hasn't* been working recently, and a lot of us are scaling back on promoting, so I decided to try something a little silly and radical today, very spur of the moment. I have a complete series that is now quite old and while it still holds the record for most sales and downloads, the magic has clearly faded, especially when it comes to paid promotion. So last night, on a whim, I decided to put all three books out for free today. No announcement, no advertising, nothing, just to see what would happen.

While the first in series has been free so often in the last 5 years that I'm lucky to get a dozen downloads on an unadvertised day anymore, the next two books have never been free ever, and I don't plan to make a habit of giving them away. As such, I expected a few folks who already had that book might grab up the others. My estimate for the day was about 100-200 each for the second and third books with my standard 10-50 for book one.

Well, when I woke up, I was already surprised to see 157 downloads and a few hours later, it was still climbing. It seems not only did ereaderIQ blast the price drop, but Book Gorilla, who would normally charge $50 for a sci-fi and fantasy listing, put both the newly free books in their newsletters today, which gave me a decent boost.

I'll give the final figures in the stacked thread tomorrow, but I wanted to post this today while I was thinking about it. No, I'm not saying that giving away the farm is a method you should all try, but I *am* saying that if you've got an older series that isn't selling as well as it once did, giving it a boost doesn't have to cost a thing.

Christina wrote: "So I know we've been discussing what *hasn't* been working recently, and a lot of us are scaling back on promoting, so I decided to try something a little silly and radical today, very spur of the ..."

Very interesting stuff, Christina! I've been thinking about playing around with my series that is also a bit older. It sells, but not the way I'd like it to. In April, I was going to do a promotion for it and was debating about doing freebies vs. paid. I'll definitely keep that in mind. So glad it seems to have worked out for you!!

Christina wrote: "So I know we've been discussing what *hasn't* been working recently, and a lot of us are scaling back on promoting, so I decided to try something a little silly and radical today, very spur of the ..."
Awesome, Christina. I'm happy to hear you are having success. Keep being amazing!

Freebies always work. If you are only looking for a wider readership and essentially not money spinner this is the best strategy. At this point you may put a price and offer a decent discount, people will still download. All the best.

I'm new to book publishing and promotion. I have gained some tips from this thread and must thank those who made remarkable contributions.

Hope this is the right place for this question. I would like to run a free promo for one of my books that is no longer in KDP select, but it won't allow me to change the price. How do I put my book for free? Thanks!

Angela wrote: "Hope this is the right place for this question. I would like to run a free promo for one of my books that is no longer in KDP select, but it won't allow me to change the price. How do I put my book..."

As far as I know, it's not an easy process. I've wanted to do the same and the only way (I might be very wrong) is to make it free on other sites that it's being sold on appeal to Amazon that you've found it for a lower price. Eventually, they will drop the price to zero. You can also try emailing them or calling directly and see where you get.

If anyone else knows of a way, I'm all ears.

There is no guarantee when or if they will make your book free, so free promotions are really difficult to plan. Here is my personal timeline from trying to get a free "price match" in January of this year. I've heard of it takings weeks for them to price match for authors before, so maybe take my results with a grain of salt.

Jan 23: emailed KDP to ask for price match since my book was free to download on Instafreebie and Book Cave Direct
Jan 24: KDP denied my request, said they retain discretion over price-matching
Jan 27: I reduced my book to free (previously 99 cents) through Smashwords (distributor) and Kobo
Jan 28:
-free price on my book took effect on Kobo, iBooks, Nook, etc
-I emailed KDP again to request a price match, noting that my book was free on the expanded channels
Jan 29: KDP again replied that they retain discretion over price matches, but they made my book free anyway

Can anybody give me advice on where to specifically promote a new book.

thanks

I've been slowly moving my historical fiction series into the world of wide distribution. Since this is the first time my books won't be exclusive to Kindle, I'm treating the transition as a new launch.

I'm finding that some of the promotional sites are also Kindle exclusive, so they won't really serve my purpose of promoting to a new audience. I'm listing my notes below for anyone interested. I hope it will save you some time :).

"All channels" refers to the major players: Amazon, Nook, iBooks, Google


Bookbub: all channels
Book Adrenaline: all channels except Google
Robin Reads: only Kindle and Nook
Booksends: only Kindle
ENT: all channels
Book Cave: all channels + Smashwords
Book Basset: only Kindle
Reading Deals: all channels + Smashwords
Book Raid: all channels
OHFB: only Kindle
Freebooksy: all channels
Book Gorilla: only Kindle
Book Runes: only Kindle
Digital Book Today: only Kindle
Fussy Librarian: all channels + Smashwords
Riffle: all channels
Manybooks: all channels + Smashwords

Marie Silk wrote: "I've been slowly moving my historical fiction series into the world of wide distribution. Since this is the first time my books won't be exclusive to Kindle, I'm treating the transition as a new la..."
Thank you for that, that's extremely helpful. Can you tell me though, are you releasing new books to these outlets? Or can you be kindle exclusive with a specific book to start with, and then widen the audience for that later?

Thanks for the info, Marie! So good to know this. I hope it goes well for you!

Petra wrote: "Can you tell me though, are you releasing new books to these outlets? Or can you be kindle exclusive with a specific book to start with, and then widen the audience for that later? ."

These are books that I published in 2016 that have been enrolled in Kindle Select the whole time. Each Kindle Select cycle (and exclusivity requirement) runs 90 days, but if you keep the "auto-renew" box checked, it will just keep renewing until you uncheck it. I started unchecking the boxes earlier this year so I could begin publishing my books on other channels. You can publish your ebook wide anytime after the Kindle Select enrollment ends. Just be aware that the auto-renew box is checked by default once you enroll, so you have to manually uncheck it and wait for the term to end :).

Amanda wrote: "Thanks for the info, Marie! So good to know this. I hope it goes well for you!"

Thank you, Amanda :). I hope it's helpful.

I realized I forgot to record which of the "all channel" sites also promote for Kobo readers, which is kind of hit or miss. But there are site-wide promotion opportunities you can use if you publish directly to Kobo which I am currently experimenting with. I'll update with whatever comes of it :).

Marie Silk wrote: "Amanda wrote: "Thanks for the info, Marie! So good to know this. I hope it goes well for you!"

Thank you, Amanda :). I hope it's helpful.

I realized I forgot to record which of the "all channel"..."

I'd love to hear how this goes for you, Marie. I have avoided the "wide" distribution route at this point, due to it feeling daunting to learn and accomplish, but perhaps one day I will be ready to give it a try. I'll be taking notes as you pursue it, to learn from the hardy souls who try this first. I learn well from watching!!

Alex wrote: "I'd love to know about the site-wide promotion opportunities for those who are published direct to Kobo, I have my books through kobo writing life so figuring out something that would get attention to my books there would be a help. "

Sure, Alex :). You need to email KWL and request that the "promotions tab" be added to your dashboard. Once it's added, you can view the promotions and dates available. The cost runs anywhere from $5-$80, although some of them don't cost anything upfront. Those will take a percentage of royalties from the promotion. Good luck :).

Marie Silk wrote: "Petra wrote: "Can you tell me though, are you releasing new books to these outlets? Or can you be kindle exclusive with a specific book to start with, and then widen the audience for that later? ."..."

That is very helpful, thank you!

I also just recently found out about the promo tab on Kobo. Once they set it up for you getting into the promos is super easy. I just made my first ever kobo sale by being in their easter weekend promo (for which I didn't do any of my own advertising at all, just requested to be in the promo and waited to see what would happen) so I'm very excited about that.

Many Books

It's been awhile since I've used Many Books for a promotion. I remember them being okay-ish (a few hundred downloads) for free promos. I went to their site today and noticed they have a new website and it seems they've been working to improve their subscriber base. Interestingly, they are one of the few sites that have not increased their price since I started marketing two years ago. I'm going to give them another try, but with a 99 cent promo this time. The cost is $29. I added them to the list above as being open to all channels and found this statement on their website:

Please provide your retailer book links where the discounted price will be offered. Providing an Amazon link is required, the others are optional. However, authors with all available retailers receive at least 50% more clicks. In some cases, we have seen increases of up to 300%.

Thank you to Marie for the promotion site information above. I have also taken the steps to go wide with some of my books. Exciting times... unchecking the auto renew in KDP select and listing books on Kobo, iTunes, Smashwords etc