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This BBC article (see link above for full article) makes for interesting reading - it investigates whether the United States is behind the creation of the Islamic State group (formerly known as Isis, the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria) and Hillary Rodham Clinton admitted it in her book Hard Choices.

Here are some excerpts from this BBC article:

As Islamic State (IS) militants advanced into Lebanon last week - spreading terror into the village of Arsal, bordering Syria, and driving hundreds out of their homes - whispers pinned the blame for their actions on the US.

Horrific videos of IS atrocities against Lebanese Armed Forces circulated on the internet. So did the theory that America is behind the existence and emboldening of the group.

To back up their claim, conspiracy theorists online pointed to a powerful piece of "proof": the word of Hillary Clinton - the former US secretary of state widely expected to make a bid for the presidency.

Screenshots of supposed "excerpts" from her book spread far and wide on social media in Lebanon, claiming the US created IS to instil instability in the region for American gain.

The rumour even prompted the Lebanese foreign ministry to summon US Ambassador to Lebanon David Hale.

"Most people here believe the US and Saudi are one and when it comes strictly down to oil money, the ultimate benefactor from the whole IS debacle is Saudi/the US. As history has taught us, it is usually the benefactors who are the instigators," says Amer Murad, a native of Beirut.

US and Saudi Arabia also funded the Taliban.

And Saddam too?

Edward wrote: "Rivka wrote: "US and Saudi Arabia also funded the Taliban."

And Bin Laden, and Noriega, and, and, and."

I am not sure if you are making a mockery of my words or expressing disgust believing that I may be suggesting an alternate conspiracy theory. No, I am not. Taliban was created by Pakistan and funded by Saudi Arabia and USA. Because of the cold war between US and Soviet Union, because of the rising power of Soviet Union in central Asia, because of the USA wanting to pose a counter power to the opposing Soviets; the US funded rebel groups under the leadership of Reagan government to push back the Soviet Union. As Mujahedeen grew stronger, US lost track and then the rest is history.

Hi Rivka
Everything you say about the activities of the Reagan administration is factual.
Also, I don't want to speak on behalf of Edward, but the way I read his comment is he was agreeing with you and adding that the US also secretly financed Noriega
I was also agreeing with you by asking you guys if you think Saddam's was also a Western backed puppet?

Oops! In my defense, the weather is bad.

Edward wrote: "Rivka wrote: "Oops! In my defense, the weather is bad."

Sorry if it was worded poorly. I am in complete agreement and would like to further add the US funding of African border wars, if not the in..."

That's alright. Please don't be sorry.

And why are they calling it a "state"?
And even for the sake of argument let's say that is the correct definition, it should be called the Terrorist State, for terrorist groups do not represent Islam anymore than the Ku Klux Klan represents Christianity.

I am just curious, where did the KKK disappear?

Rivka wrote: "I am just curious, where did the KKK disappear?"

Oh, they're still around would you believe...I know logical people like yourself would assume they vanished into insignificance like the Flat Earth Society and other relic organizations of bygone eras, but unfortunately they live on with a reasonable membership...

James wrote: "And Saddam too?"

James:

I don't understand your question - is there any doubt that Saddam Hussein was initially supported by the US? The famous Rumsfeld photo



was near the peak of the relationship.

The US was funding and encouraging the war between Iraq and Iran. A war in which over 100,000 were killed on each side. The relationship soured when Hussein discovered the US had provided arms to Iran (see Iran-Contra).

From then on, the partnership deteriorated.

Tim wrote: "James wrote: "And Saddam too?"

James:

I don't understand your question - is there any doubt that Saddam Hussein was initially supported by the US? The famous Rumsfeld photo

..."

My point exactly, Tim. I believe, like you seem to, that Saddam was indeed a puppet of the West conveniently used as a bad guy to justify multiple wars.

Tim wrote: "James wrote: "And Saddam too?"

James:

I don't understand your question - is there any doubt that Saddam Hussein was initially supported by the US? The famous Rumsfeld photo

..."

That is pretty interesting.

The terms IS, ISIL, ISIS are obviously labels created by the west to identify the loose coalition of military groups rebelling against the Western occupation of Iraq which has taken foothold in Syria. So in this sense, it is an invention of the West.

Their military equipment comes primarily from captured American arms that were pumped into the country over the last ten years. So, again, an American creation.

The war is also sustaining demand for defense equipment supplies, so there is an obvious financial incentive at play.

Throw into the mix the Christian fundamentalists who are awaiting the second coming following the war of Armageddon which must occur first in the middle east.

So even if no western policy-maker actually conceived the group, it is, in every other sense, a creation of the west.

Tim wrote: "The terms IS, ISIL, ISIS are obviously labels created by the west to identify the loose coalition of military groups rebelling against the Western occupation of Iraq which has taken foothold in Syr..."

Very insightful comments, Tim.
You're probably right that ISIS is a creation of the West - one way or another - either directly or indirectly.

Charlie Hebdo attack - ISIS or inside job?

In yesterday's Mail:

"Turkish president accuses 'the West' of being behind Charlie Hebdo attacks and deliberately 'blaming Muslims' as conspiracy theories sweep the Internet accusing Israel of orchestrating it
Recep Tayyip ErdoÄŸan suggested French security forces knew of attack
Turkish President said the West is 'playing games with the Islamic world'
Said: 'French citizens carried out massacre, and Muslims pay the price'"

Read more:

Did Francoise Hollande mention the Illuminati as being responsible for the attacks, in his speech? I'm not sure! What do you think?)

The Turkish PM has been caught arming Al Quaeada and ISIS. (Turkey being a NATO ally of course, NATO being the good guys in the west right, who are allies with U.S and....)

"Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu banned media from reporting on three of the trucks searched by the military’s Gendarmerie General Command, which discovered 45 to 55 missiles or rockets, 30 to 40 crates of ammunition, including mortar rounds, and Douchka anti-aircraft ammunition."

More:

That vid is a great rap, Jeannie!

What you guys think of the term "leader of the free world"?

I think it's hilarious, myself...

Yet more information comes out to suggest the West's connection with ISIS.

The Iraqi Popular Forces say they shot down planes from the U.S and U.K who were delivering arms and food to ISIS soldiers:

Yep, it all comes down to: who ya gonna trust?

Reading all the comments here was disturbing until I saw that most information seemed to come from YouTube or wiki or nefarious news reporters. In the eye of the beholder? Of course there is a great army of people willing to believe the worst of the West and, no doubt, some of it is true but the same applies to the East.

I always maintain one has to look at both sides of a conspiracy theory or opinion to come up with some thing like the truth. I have much more positive belief about the strength of individuals to change the behaviour or thinking of the disempowered than the performance of war or atrocities ever do. The latter creates hatred whereas the former reaches out and enables empathy and understanding.

I also believe that there are good and bad people in every Position of power but many are ambitious to gain power. The best way the Western democracies can influence poorer nations is to set an example of behaviour. Spend money in helping the poor in underprivileged nations to become self-sufficient through education and provide some necessities like infrastructure to provide water, sewerage, humble but acceptable housing, health facilities, farming technology etc. and employ the locals to build that infrastructure.

This will save money in the long run for the West and relieve the problem of people wanting to escape from their homeland which I believe everybody loves. Also it would disempower those radical and cruel groups seeking power of their own. Power is what the West has been holding up as a role model instead of aide in a more sustainable format.

A voice of reason Loaureen. Thank you.

Laureen wrote: "Reading all the comments here was disturbing until I saw that most information seemed to come from YouTube or wiki or nefarious news reporters. In the eye of the beholder? Of course there is a gr..."

Laureen, I respect your opinions but having known a lot of people from the Third World, including those who have endured hellish war zones and extreme poverty in famines etc, I believe it's much more complicated than you're proposing. I think although most in the West are trying to help the world, many of the elite in the West want to continue to dominate less powerful nations. Greed is what is ruling at the very top. Decimating vulnerable countries is sometimes viewed as collateral damage by elite powerbrokers...

Yes, there is charity coming from the West, but there's also no such thing as a free lunch. The charity often comes with strings attached. The problem is the so-called poor "Third World" countries are often and unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your take) extremely wealthy nations in terms of mineral resources. Many citizens in these countries should be far, far wealthier than most Western nations (if it was a fair world). But it's not a fair world according to what I've researched.

I suggest you take a look at the posts in the section of this group titled BANKRUPTING THE THIRD WORLD.
Especially these posts:

End poverty now � or later...or much later /topic/show/...

Confessions of an Economic Hit Man /topic/show/...

The truth about international aid /topic/show/...

If you're interested in discussing this further then take a moment to read those threads and comment and I for one will engage with you...This is a subject close to my heart and I firmly believe there is more than enough wealth in this world for every man woman and child to at least have food shelter education and clothing. Unfortunately, there are many in elite positions of power in the West who seem to think citizens in non-Western countries do not matter as much...

I like this quote from U2's Bono - a man who as you know has devoted a lot of time to Africa's cause and also believes the continent is being thwarted by the West:
“It’s an amazing thing to think that ours is the first generation in history that really can end extreme poverty, the kind that means a child dies for lack of food in its belly. That should be seen as the most incredible, historic opportunity but instead it’s become a millstone around our necks. We let our own pathetic excuses about how it’s difficult justify our own inaction. Be honest. We have the science, the technology, and the wealth. What we don’t have is the will, and that’s not a reason that history will accept.� –Bono, interview to the World Association of Newspapers for World Press Freedom Day. May 3, 2004.

The post Profiting from war in the Bankrupting the Third World section is also worth a look: /topic/show/...

That's right on point in relation to this ISIS discussion thread.

Oh James, I know what you are saying without reading the threads you have kindly provided. The fact is I have little time in my tight daily schedule to read them but I will try.

I am obviously not as well read as you are, not having time to research every topic nor the time to read everything on this discussion group. All I have to offer is my life experiences and engagement with other average people, listening to radio interviews while driving to work from both sides of politics
and trying to come up with answers to provide a better world for everybody.

I cannot engage in conspiracy theories just for the sake of agreeing with everybody. I do understand why people are mistrustful of the Western nations. And I do think it is up to the people of those countries to set an example. Western powers own very little. It is the taxpayer's money they collect that is going to the instigators of the oppression of the very people that should be receiving aide from the West.

Yes, I can understand the fear of Western power brokers, that they may lose their status by raising up these resource rich nations. But the average concerned citizen doesn't agree and their money is going to aide this distortion of world benevolence. We are, without even trying, complicit in this Western "conspiracy".

That was my main point. How do we insist that our contribution to world aide goes to the people and not the aggressors of a country. We have the educators and scientists to help the poor to develop their countries to provide food and water. Forget the mines. They are the last thing I would think the poor need instantly. Yes, maybe my view is too simplistic but maybe the West has got too complicated. Insist that our Governments employ people with our taxpayer funds to go to the Nation in question and make a difference instead of just handing it out to who knows who!

For anyone interested in what goes on with international aid given to "Third World" countries, I recommend watching this video as a good starting point: /videos/8084...

Underground Knowledge member (and ex-FBI employee) Sibel Edmonds says "US cultivated, financed ISIS" - /videos/8166...

How the Neocons Created ISIS | Interview with (former Reagan Justice Dept official) Bruce Fein -- /videos/8626...

James Morcan wrote: "Laureen, I respect your opinions but having known a lot of people from the Third World, including those who have endured hellish war zones and extreme poverty in famines etc, I believe it's much more complicated than you're proposing. I think although most in the West are trying to help the world, many of the elite in the West want to continue to dominate less powerful nations. Greed is what is ruling at the very top. Decimating vulnerable countries is sometimes viewed as collateral damage by elite powerbrokers..."

I totally agree with James. With the despicable history of the U.S. government since it's very inception-dispossessing the Indians of their land/country, putting despots into power all over the world, playing both sides in global conflicts,being 'two-faced' allies, I put absolutely 'Nothing' past the whores in Washington,and that is all any/every politician is...is a whore for sale!

C. wrote: "I totally agree with James. With the despicable history of the U.S. government since it's very inception-dispossessing the Indians of their land/country, putting despots into power all over the world, playing both sides in global conflicts,being 'two-faced' allies, I put absolutely 'Nothing' past the whores in Washington,and that is all any/every politician is...is a whore for sale! ..."

You make some irrefutable points (e.g. what happened to Native Americans). I personally think America (given its strong historical foundations of liberty for all) still has the potential to resolve many of the world's problems. The US can be a big part of the solution, instead of causing many problems. Also, I think we need to remember there's a very big difference between recent US administrations and the American people - most Americans I have ever met want to end wars and want equality for all. So it's the politicians (or the "whores in Washington" as you aptly call them!) who are very un-American in my opinion.

I believe none of these issues are about nationalities, but rather elite (globalist) powerbrokers who transcend nationalities and seem to be playing chess matches on the world's stage. Only problem is the chess pieces are soldiers and civilians and the chess board is the battlefield...And the average citizen (whether American, British, Russian or Iranian) is just another pawn...

Shadow Government Intelligence Secrets & 9/11 Truth with ex-British intelligence agent John Banks -- /videos/8714...

Two things in particular that John Banks mentioned in this interview rang true for me:

1. That ISIS could not be shipping oil all around the world and transferring monies all over the show without at least some in the the intel community knowing...in this modern age of satellite technology and sophisticated surveillance that'd be impossible. Bottom line is someone like an Adnan Khashoggi (or a splinter group) is financing them and someone else in the West is allowing ISIS to move freely.

2. That the real power players are a global elite who are beyond (and independent of) countries. I hate it when certain researchers start blaming entire nations like the US or the UK for the world's problems. As I think John said in the interview those orchestrating these things have no nationality in particular.

I've always felt that thinking in terms of countries is out-dated 20th Century thinking - and probably mid-20th Century at that.

The world has changed.

James Morcan wrote: "Shadow Government Intelligence Secrets & 9/11 Truth with ex-British intelligence agent John Banks -- /videos/8714......"

Exactly!

British SAS Special Forces “Dressed Up as ISIS Rebels� Fighting Assad in Syria --

Another thing I wonder in relation to ISIS, is what the hell happened to al-Qaeda????
Formerly al-Qaeda were (reportedly) some unstoppable evil enterprise that threatened to bring down Western civilization and which the big intel agencies predicted would take decades to eradicate...

And now, within a very short space of time al-Qaeda is rarely mentioned in headlines and doesn't seem to be a major threat anymore and has now been superseded by some new unrelated (or loosely related) Islamic terrorist group called ISIS...And this new group is also supposedly operating on a very large scale without any help or secret funding from the ultra-powerful, high-tech Western intelligence agencies...And what's more, ISIS' global operations go almost completely undetected from surveillance by the CIA, Mossad etc just like al-Qaeda's operations did...the same surveillance technologies that can tell right now what computer device you are reading this post on or what clothes you are wearing...

Hmmmmmmm, call me crazy, but I smell a rat...

I think there are quite a few conspiracies out there mingled with random acts of insanity. I find it surprising how nobody ever mentions the ties the Bush family has with middle eastern tyrants. Some who are thought to have had a part in 9/11. As the goal is often to instill fear and manipulate, terrorism has shown to be highly effective. Take for instance Anders Behring Breivik, he feared the Muslims would take over Europe, so he took matters into his own hands and became a terrorist.
Snowden felt the US was committing highly unethical invasion of our privacy. He thought Obama would do something about it, so he held back. He became quite despaired when he realized the spying was elevated under Obama, so he took matters into his own hands(at least he was driven by good morals). I do think there exists terrorists in middle east who are led by psychosis rather than conspiracies.

Lisa wrote: "I think there are quite a few conspiracies out there mingled with random acts of insanity. I find it surprising how nobody ever mentions the ties the Bush family has with middle eastern tyrants. S..."

You're right Lisa, it is astonishing how infrequently the mainstream media mentions the close business connections of the Bush family to past and present middle eastern tyrants like Saddam and Osama bin Laden.

"Psycopaths are running the world!"

This video of a Press TV debate about Syria's 'war of deception' is a couple of years old, but it's back in the alternative media spotlight again, and rightly so, when you consider just what's going on in Syria at the moment and the knock on effects its having with Europe in terms of mass migration/border control etal.

Ken O'Keefe does a damn good job, as he always does (check out his YouTube vids if you don't know him: ) of taking no nonsense and saying it how it is:

“All of these players, these politicians are nothing more than puppets, they don’t serve the people there is no real democracy, they serve the rich and powerful who run the world and that would be the bankers who control the money supply. The bankers make huge amounts of money�.wars are great for them and ultimately they control the politicians. Psychopaths are running the world.�

A number of points have been raised in this thread that have baffled me for a while now.

1 - no sanctions threatened against countries colluding with or standing by and watching the spread of ISIS eg Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Qatar

2 - New western agreements on nuclear power with Iran, the natural opponents to Sunni/Salafist ISIS

3 - As James points out, who is buying ISIS pumped oil?

4 - No one criticises Saudi Arabia's intervention in Yemen to stop the progress of Houthi rebels, but not al-Queda forces...

I could go on, but the whole tangled geopolitical game must have a logic to it somewhere. Does anyone have the definitive answer other than a 'trans-national global elite who want to control everything.'

It would be easy to think a bunch of rich people are sleeping soundly in their beds in spite of the carnage that generates their wealth. It would be easier to think everyone involved is being tempted by the Devil.

It's not unreasonable to assume that the security and intelligence communities know what's going on and do nothing or little, but those outside that community have similar access to what's really going on and yet no one seems to have found some kind of magic bullet that hits those responsible for this murderous policy.

Or maybe they have and the media has played its part in watering down the facts and colouring the accusers as nutcases.

I'll stop there before I turn into David Icke.

Chris, you are not turning into David Icke!

Yes ISIS/IS/DAESH is an invention of the US/Israel/Saudi with help from UK and others!

Syrian Girl: Who's Behind the Weird Staged ISIS Beheading Videos? /videos/9120...

In the early days of the war in Iraq, one of the rationales voiced by Bush was that it would make the region safer for ISIS. At that time they saw the Islamic group as allies in the down fall of Syria.

Really?
Did not know that.
Sounds similar to how the Taliban in Afghanistan were formerly listed or viewed as allies and freedom fighters.
Also, I wonder how many of the ISIS beheading videos are staged on film sets as per the one shown jn the Syrian Girl video?

Who does ISIS work for? /videos/9567...

ISIS started in 2007, when AlBaghdadi was released from Cam Buccra. Also look at when Saudi released/paroled a lot of its long term prisoners from jails as long as they fought for ISIS.
ISIS was/is a US/CIA invention, no doubt! It is there to serve a purpose, get rid of Assad, they might have succeeded except Russia stepped in.

I have a great respect for Global Research and their articles, This one answers a lot of questions!!

Another article with photo's of McCaine and Al Baghdadi!

John wrote: "Another article with photo's of McCaine and Al Baghdadi!

"

McCain seems to be everywhere with this whole creation of ISIS.
Remember, the staged videos of ISIS beheadings that were leaked to the media earlier this year apparently came from McCain's assistant.