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Debby wrote: "In 2095 the NZ population is 1 million, b/cos the virus negatively impacts fertility, something no one noticed until the 2060s...."

Don't give the Elite's any ideas here, Debby :)

Remember Prince Phillip once said if he could have any wish it would be to reincarnate as a virus to wipe out 95% of the human race...The useless eaters I think he called us all!

Iain wrote: "James, they're pushing the decarbinisation agenda on the back of this, but they're doing so on the basis that the economies demand it now due to the wreck COVID has caused . . . .

That might entail The West foster less efficient green tech that can;t cover base capacity while The East picks up the slack and steams ahead using fossil fuels. ..."

I agree with all you say/imply here and I think you're on to something with the connection to Climate Change extremists (the doomsday variety). I'm all for protecting the environment, but we all know there is a new breed of environmental scientists who literally views humanity as the problem (to which I say GTFOH!!)

But Iain, my issue is I still can't get that grinning Old Boy in video you showed me out of my head - the one in that economic forum looking like a kid in a candy store saying things like "this is a wonderful time in human history" !!!

The stuff of nightmares!

Iain, this is a bloody scary Guardian news headline: Decarbonisation is our future. It must be factored into the coronavirus recovery

p.s. Sounds to me like they've decided our future (based on science or not!) and also telling us it's intimately linked to the virus...

Debby wrote: "First, before I forget, just saw a news item about declining fertility! My story's coming true? No! "

Have you considered, especially if this virus is lab created not purely natural as even many scientists believe it to be, that there may be some secondary medical aspect to this virus?

i.e. it's nothing like the Spanish Flu in terms of fatality rate, but that in the long run it does something like dropping fertility rates or something else that ultimately reduces global population? (and makes Malthusian/Darwinian types of scientists very happy as a result, not to mention the likes of Bill Gates, Iain's hero!)

James wrote: "Iain wrote: "James, they're pushing the decarbinisation agenda on the back of this, but they're doing so on the basis that the economies demand it now due to the wreck COVID has caused . . . .

Tha..."

I am sure I seen him in a past life? I think he was a dentist?

James, I never said I ignore estimates. I said I ignore them when they don't indicate the assumptions used in making them. Do you really believe the 0.26% death rate, because if so you have to believe there have been 200 million cases.

James wrote: "Iain, this is a bloody scary Guardian news headline: Decarbonisation is our future. It must be factored into the coronavirus recovery

p.s. Sounds to me like they've decided our future (based on sc..."

As I said before if they want to start on that path the Guardian could also help lower carbon emissions greatly by firing some of its columnists.

It won't happen in the fashion they describe it. These columnists throw out idealistic notions without factoring in geopolitical and geoeconomic competition and that coming from individuals and groups (investors, hedgefunds, 'shorts', etc). It almost like they apply theoretical models and solution to a planet bereft of contention and one in total unison.

We might very well be at an inflection point where we're damaging the planet via fossil fuels to the point it's causing catastrophic weather patterns and so on and will eventuate in our demise, but not discussing or finding realistic solutions and based on the time period with this issue in its entirety is gonna bring equal measure of problems too.

Debby wrote: "I was told 6 weeks by a woman I know who was obedient, total confinement with her husband, in the end the Salvation army fed them. My son who's vulnerable with an immune system disease, and his wif..."

I know there are always some who think it is smart to break the rules. However, you might like to consider the way they enforced it in Hunan. A paper sheet was stuck to the doors and building so you could not get out without breaking it. You were allowed out to get groceries, etc and the paper was replaced when you returned. Break the paper without authorization - 6 months in jail. If someone got the virus thanks to your bad behaviour, 5 years in jail. There would be no reductions for good behaviour - good behaviour merely mdeans you avoid the punishments for bad behaviour, and Chimnese jails are very unlikely to be pleasant spots.

Ian wrote: "Debby wrote: "I was told 6 weeks by a woman I know who was obedient, total confinement with her husband, in the end the Salvation army fed them. My son who's vulnerable with an immune system diseas..."

Ian, India came up with a more pleasurable way of enforcing lock-down by the use of a baton being cracked over your skull for non compliance.

"6 months in jail. If someone got the virus thanks to your bad behaviour, 5 years in jail. There would be no reductions for good behaviour - good behaviour merely mdeans you avoid the punishments for bad behaviour, and Chimnese jails are very unlikely to be pleasant spots"

It's almost admirable.

Ian wrote: "James, I never said I ignore estimates. I said I ignore them when they don't indicate the assumptions used in making them. Do you really believe the 0.26% death rate, because if so you have to beli..."

You repeatedly implied at least that you pay no attention to estimates and dismissed all estimates even from the CDC, Stanford etc that I and others have posted in this group. How would you like a medical scientist to consult you in your field of science and laugh at your estimates? I've seen you giving great credence to climate change estimates for example (and I for one would listen to any estimates you take seriously in that field, albeit acknowledging they are only estimates, because it's clear you are well studied/experienced within that avenue of science and i know NOTHING about the environmental sciences).

As for the numbers of infected and real death rates...
The London Imperial College estimates Britain alone has approx. 8M Brits have already been infected with this virus. UK is only 66M people and there are 8 billion people worldwide, so yeah I think we could easily have 200M+ judging by those numbers.

Meanwhile, you didn't respond to the difference between IFR (which includes all infected) and CFR (which is the one you've been purposefully or inadvertently quoting all along). I can continue to highlight that difference if you like :)

Influenza is said to have about a 3% CFR deathtoll I think I read somewhere (that is also TOTALLY irrelevant and influenza usually only 0.1% IFR altho the odd very bad Infleunza seasons have been more like 0.2-0.3%)

Only reason to calculate CFR is it is very useful for staff in hospitals, I'm told. They need to know how deadly something is within hospitals to estimate beds and staff needed during an outrbreak of any virus. But of course only severe cases get registered as infected, let alone hospitalized...

Iain wrote: "As I said before if they want to start on that path the Guardian could also help lower carbon emissions greatly by firing some of its columnists.
..."

Guardian Journos are like spies I think...

We have a retired Guardian journalist in this group, I think.

Weird thing is he only ever seems to post (prolifically I might add) right before UK elections or British referendums like BREXIT...Otherwise he goes dead silent.

That must be a Guardian trick.

James wrote: "Iain wrote: "As I said before if they want to start on that path the Guardian could also help lower carbon emissions greatly by firing some of its columnists.
..."

Guardian Journos are like spies ..."

As they say in the airforce: "Smoke me a kipper skipper, I'll be back for breakfast"

He never did come back.

Maybe he's found another Liz Taylor to consort with . . . .

Iain wrote: "Ian, India came up with a more pleasurable way of enforcing lock-down by the use of a baton being cracked over your skull for non compliance..."

Horrible that. I saw Indians crying in the streets and being whacked repeatedly (over the legs mind you - still you need your legs). I asked some Indians about this and they said a police man whacking your legs over there is a bit like a cop saying hello to you in the West! Apparently they do this all the time.

But I did see some footage were police were beating them really savagely...And some of the victims were crying they couldn't afford or couldn't find any spare masks.

I'm convinced nations like India, other Developing or Third World nations in Asia and South America, and most of Africa, are completely screwed if more lockdowns occur.

And the West is in big trouble also!

Iain wrote: "Maybe he's found another Liz Taylor to consort with . . . ..."

He'll be back Iain...with more tales of Liz and that Welsh dude.

But it's all about timing in espionage...

IN other words wait for the next political bifurcation point in Britain and he'll be back to influence things...

Debby wrote: "Ian J Miller, exactly right! I live alone, can't order groceries online, no computer and a 6 week wait for delivery. So even if I wanted to comply with solitary confinement house arrest, I couldn't"

See this is what I am VERY worried about with senior citizens (I am assuming you are sorry as you mentioned you are retired, sorry if you are not!).

My point is that seniors could get very isolated in this brave new world and rest homes also could be avoided as supposed virus hotspots.

But my interrelated concern here is they are acting like every generation on Earth is VERY computer savvy and internet savvy and simply tech savvy. Not true. Yet they expect seniors to be able to do everything online during this period (which has been given no timeframe)...

James wrote: "Iain wrote: "Ian, India came up with a more pleasurable way of enforcing lock-down by the use of a baton being cracked over your skull for non compliance..."

Horrible that. I saw Indians crying in..."

(over the legs mind you - still you need your legs)

Yes. Legs come in handy mate. :D

Maybe the Indian Riot Stasi got the wrong idea of what Modi meant when he required temporary immobility.

Lmao

James wrote: "Iain wrote: "Ian, India came up with a more pleasurable way of enforcing lock-down by the use of a baton being cracked over your skull for non compliance..."

Horrible that. I saw Indians crying in..."

"But I did see some footage were police were beating them really savagely...And some of the victims were crying they couldn't afford or couldn't find any spare masks."

Mate that isn't police that's thugs.

Anni wrote: "Just when I thought it couldn't possibly get any worse - see link below:-
Is the Coronavirus test a likely candidate for direct brain access?
"

Shit, imagine if this is true!

Is the coronavirus test a likely candidate for direct brain access?

That video has 246 likes and ZERO dislikes...
UH oh!

James wrote: "Iain wrote: "Maybe he's found another Liz Taylor to consort with . . . ..."

He'll be back Iain...with more tales of Liz and that Welsh dude.

But it's all about timing in espionage...

IN other wo..."

But it's all about timing in espionage...

Oh yeah that Welsh connection. A blast from the past. Sounds like a real jewel from Cardiff Theatre.

Who would have thought?

Iain wrote: "Anni you can never count out anything but considering the amount of test cases I highly doubt it causes extensive neurological or brain damage...."

Either way mate, if you find yourself strapped to a 1984-style bench like John Hurt, and they say "now Iain, we just need to test you, it's mandatory but it's for your own benefit," with a friendly smile, "now would you like a nasal or saliva test."

I would go for the saliva test!!

James wrote: "Iain wrote: "Maybe he's found another Liz Taylor to consort with . . . ..."

He'll be back Iain...with more tales of Liz and that Welsh dude.

But it's all about timing in espionage...

IN other wo..."


IN other words wait for the next political bifurcation point in Britain and he'll be back to influence things

I often wondered why he spoke so surely of himself . . . .

And as a second part of the test, if they ask "how many fingers am I holding up?"

Well, I'm not sure what to advise then...

Iain wrote: "I often wondered why he spoke so surely of himself ....."

Seemed very familiar with the City of London's inner workings too, I recall...

The Underground is full of spies, mate. After a while, it's like spies become part of the furniture around here!

James wrote: "Iain wrote: "Anni you can never count out anything but considering the amount of test cases I highly doubt it causes extensive neurological or brain damage...."

Either way mate, if you find yourse..."

"now would you like a nasal or saliva test."

I would go for the saliva test!!

Mate the saliva test ain't worth spit and the nasal test I'd turn my nose up at it.

Iain wrote: "Mate that isn't police that's thugs..."
Not in India, I heard

Iain wrote: "Mate the saliva test ain't worth spit and the nasal test I'd turn my nose up at it...."

"Can you not understand, Winston (Iain), that the individual is only a cell? The weariness of the cell is the vigour of the organism. ... The individual only has power in so far as he ceases to be an individual. You know the Party slogan: “Freedom is Slavery�." -Orwell, 1984

James Morcan oh I didn't know that about the man my father called Nick the Greek! Yikes, horrible.

James wrote: "The Underground is full of spies, mate. After a while, it's like spies become part of the furniture around here!"

There's a few skeletons in the wardrobe for sure, but you sound as if you've got a leg upon them.

James wrote: "And as a second part of the test, if they ask "how many fingers am I holding up?"

Well, I'm not sure what to advise then...

"

Talk about stretching the truth. I am usually holding my middle one up at that juncture.

Iain wrote: "There's a few skeletons in the wardrobe for sure, but you sound as if you've got a leg upon them...."

Spies are boring after a while Iain.

More entertaining are the wannabe spies...Cloth Men, if you will...

Iain wrote: "James, they're pushing the decarbinisation agenda on the back of this, but they're doing so on the basis that the economies demand it now due to the wreck COVID has caused ..."

Have they reactivated that child agent (HANNA movie reference) Greta Thunberg yet? Or will they somehow tie the virus and climate change and children's rights all together at a later stage?

James Morcan, I am able to use computers, I just don't have one, neither can I afford data. However, I do know older people who just don't know.

James wrote: "Iain wrote: "There's a few skeletons in the wardrobe for sure, but you sound as if you've got a leg upon them...."

Spies are boring after a while Iain.

More entertaining are the wannabe spies...C..."

James wrote: "Iain wrote: "James, they're pushing the decarbinisation agenda on the back of this, but they're doing so on the basis that the economies demand it now due to the wreck COVID has caused ..."

Have t..."

LOL mate c'mon? What the underlying problem you have with Gates and Thunberg?

But in seriousness and putting aside vested interest and conflict of interests due to Russia being a major exporter of gas and oil: Putin is right once again.

The Ruskies and CCP are no doubt exploring the flaws in this 'popular opinion' over 'informed opinion' phenomenon the West is crippling itself with.

And using kids and teens with no life experience as a voice of authority is disingenuous and misleading.

Debby wrote: "James Morcan, I am able to use computers, I just don't have one, neither can I afford data. However, I do know older people who just don't know."

Yes I know others who are not computer literate. And I do not think it's fair that towards the end of their life, in a bewildered state, they should be forced to do everything digitally/online just because the rest of us know how to do this.

Iain wrote: "And using kids and teens with no life experience as a voice of authority is disingenuous and misleading...."

Obviously this American TV show never screened in Scotland then...

James wrote: "Iain wrote: "And using kids and teens with no life experience as a voice of authority is disingenuous and misleading...."

Obviously this American TV show never screened in Scotland then...

https:..."

No but we had this instead



PS: loving that elevator music . . ..

Is the Coronavirus test a likely candidate for direct brain access

I remember reading the wearing of masks can cause corona to enter the brain

Dr. Blaylock says that exhaled viruses would not be given a chance to escape if wearing a mask. He says that the virus would further concentrate and circulate within the nasal passages and could eventually travel into the brain.

James, unless more details are provided, I am going to stop discussing the CDC estimates. I don't have a link that shows how they made them, but you yourself cited in a post some time ago that they looked at antibodies and admitted the antibody test did not necessarily indicate COVID-19. If any other coronavirus could have contributed, as I remarked somewhere else, who hasn't had a cold? Unless the tests on which estimates are based are unambiguously specific to the particular virus, they will be obviously underestimates. Again, you use an estimate that the UK has had 8 million cases. A google search states 292k confirmed cases. Yes, I rely on confirmed cases because we know how they were obtained. There may well be unconfirmed cases, but relying on that can produce any sort of mumber to justify any agenda.

This is a difference of what scientific methodology is about. All the authorities use confirmed cases because this is the only way to know that at least these figures are jiustified. Let's just disagree on this and stop wasting bytes.

James wrote: "Debby wrote: "Ian J Miller, exactly right! I live alone, can't order groceries online, no computer and a 6 week wait for delivery. So even if I wanted to comply with solitary confinement house arre..."

Yes, the problem is that unless we either eliminate the virus or develop a vaccine, and there is some evidence these will not work for very long, the elderly have the choice of spending the rest of their life in total lockdown, or risk dying very early rather painfully. As someone who is old, I find it distressing that some people prefer to kill me than put themselves out for four properly coordinated weeks.

Ian wrote: "James, unless more details are provided, I am going to stop discussing the CDC estimates. I don't have a link that shows how they made them, but you yourself cited in a post some time ago that they..."

Ian, sorry mate, but this is now devolving into extreme pseudoscience unfortunately.

I've clearly shown the difference between IFR and CFR and provided articles revealing how this is a very common mistake non-scientists are making online with the fatality rates... You are carrying on quoting the CFR and refusing to listen or consider expert medical scientists at the likes of the CDC and Stanford...I've heard of stubbornness, but we are now at The Man of La Mancha levels!

If you ever wanna discuss reality and discuss real medical science in future, feel free to come back.

Ian wrote: "the elderly have the choice of spending the rest of their life in total lockdown, or risk dying very early rather painfully. As someone who is old, I find it distressing that some people prefer to kill me than put themselves out for four properly coordinated weeks...."

These comments are starting to read irrational and insanely fearful. You "find it distressing that some people prefer to kill" you! What the...????

Wow, the media has completely brainwashed you I'm sorry to say.

IF for the sake of this exercise we categorize Covid-19 as a flu virus (which I think it is as the symptoms seem almost identical) how do *flu virus deaths so far this year compare to the same period in past years? If the rates are comparable that is food for thought huh?

*Remember I'm including Coronavirus as a flu virus for the sake of this exercise.

The common cold is a coronavirus and there has never been a vaccine for long term immunity from it because it mutates - as with the flu. So IMO it is a complete nonsense to keep up these ridiculous social distancing and mask-wearing regulations ‘until a vaccine is found�, because it will never happen. The only way to deal with it is to build up our immunity through the body’s own inbuilt system, which entails being in contact with the virus, not trying to avoid it.

These comments are starting to read irrational and insanely fearful. You "find it distressing that some people prefer to kill" you! What the...????

Wow, the media has completely brainwashed you I'm sorry to say

This is what makes having rational conversations almost impossible today. If you disagree with the official narrative in any way, you are either a racist (Black Lives Matter, which I believe has much more to do with creating racial tension for the purpose of dividing and conquering ) or accused of not caring about human life, especially the elderly or chronically ill ("pandemic").

All I know is I used to visit my mother in a care home every day and since Covid, I have not seen her in four months as she sits in isolation 24/7, not even able to go to the dining room for meals. She is one of thousands of elderly people, who in some cases, not understanding what's going on, think their families have abandoned them completely.

If given the choice, my mother would choose to take her chances as I believe many elderly people would, but they're not given the choice.

Roth wrote: "This is what makes having rational conversations almost impossible today. If you disagree with the official narrative in any way, you are either a racist (Black Lives Matter, which I believe has much more to do with creating racial tension for the purpose of dividing and conquering ) or accused of not caring about human life, especially the elderly or chronically ill ("pandemic").

All I know is I used to visit my mother in a care home every day and since Covid, I have not seen her in four months as she sits in isolation 24/7, not even able to go to the dining room for meals. She is one of thousands of elderly people, who in some cases, not understanding what's going on, think their families have abandoned them completely.

If given the choice, my mother would choose to take her chances as I believe many elderly people would, but they're not given the choice...."

Yes, Yes and Yes (and sorry to hear you haven't seen your mother in all this time, lots of elderly being isolated and that carries its own dangers)

Isolation of human beings is torture !