Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ

Anni wrote: "Isolation of human beings is torture !"

Absolutely - various torture techniques seem to be being implemented during this time...

Did you see what occurred in Melbourne, Australia, Anni?
3,000 residents of low-income housing were kept in their apartments 24/7, not allowed outside even for 1 minute a day (many of the residents were mentally ill people, as well as handicapped people, sick, refugees etc). Policemen were patrolling every floor of each apartment building - and many psychiatrists were their as well...

Even maximum security prisoners are allowed outside once a day, so what do you think is going on with the more extreme lockdowns that are now beginning?

Lance wrote: "IF for the sake of this exercise we categorize Covid-19 as a flu virus (which I think it is as the symptoms seem almost identical) how do *flu virus deaths so far this year compare to the same peri..."

I'm hearing flu deaths are down (there was one article posted earlier in this thread on AU/NZ flu deathtoll down by over 50% this year) but would like to hear about internationally.

I'm hearing flu deaths are down.. .

Could that be due to flu deaths being attributed to Coronavirus?

Roth wrote: "Could that be due to flu deaths being attributed to Coronavirus?"

It could indeed.

That's the Flu Reclassification theory ;)

Anni, there is a problem with developing societal immunity, as in the common cold, because part of that immunity has been developed genetically. That is why when the Spanish brought smallpox to the Americas it wiped out the locals terribly, but the Spanish were merely badly disfigured. They had developed so much genetic resistance. Unfortunately, this is done by killing out those who don't have the scope to resist. With the cold, all your ancestors for a very long time back had it, so we have some ability to resist it. With the new virus, the genetic component takes the odd generation to come through, and worse, if it only eliminates the old, since they are past reproducing, ther eis no genetic enhancement.

James wrote: "Lance wrote: "IF for the sake of this exercise we categorize Covid-19 as a flu virus (which I think it is as the symptoms seem almost identical) how do *flu virus deaths so far this year compare to..."

It was announced this week NZ's flu cases are down 85% this year - and I heard recently Aussie's cases could be down a whopping 95%...or perhaps that related to one AU state.

So I repeat my earlier question as I feel it's very relevant to the Coronavirus debate...

IF we categorize Covid-19 as a flu virus how do worldwide flu virus deaths so far this year compare to the same period in past years?

(To answer this we need to determine the number of flu deaths from a reliable source and I'm finding that easier said than done).

Well you're asking dangerous or awkward questions, I sense... Because they don't test for the flu everywhere like we are with this...and when someone dies with influenza and various other diseases, it is not recorded as "An Influenza death" I don't think...

Covid-19: Phase 1 of the “Permanent Crisis�?

We’re not saying that Covid doesn’t kill people, and we’re not suggesting that Covid is a bioweapon released on the public for nefarious purposes. (although that’s certainly a possibility.) What we’re saying is that scheming elites and their allies in the media and politics see every crisis as an opportunity to advance their own authoritarian agenda.

In fact, the restructuring of basic democratic institutions can only take place within the confines of a major crisis. That’s why the CIA, the giant corporations, the WHO and the Gates Posse gathered for meetings that anticipated an event just like the Covid outbreak. They needed a crisis of that magnitude to achieve their ultimate objective; total control. That’s what they mean when they say there will be “no return to normal�, they mean they’re replacing representative government with a new totalitarian model in which the levers of state power will be controlled by them. So while the virus outbreak might be coincidental, the management of the crisis certainly is not. This is from an article by Gary Barnett:

“We are in the midst of an attempt by the oligarchs to eliminate the human spirit, and if this attempt is successful, the singular majesty of the human experience will have been abolished, and only a technocratic black hole of emptiness and despair will remain. This is the essence of a failed society brought about by the destruction of human intellect by state education, mass propaganda, and the planned control of individuals through physical and psychological manipulation due to fear.�(“Pandemic Madness: The State’s Plan Rests on the Destruction of the Human Spirit�, Gary Barnett, Lew Rockwell)

James wrote: "Well you're asking dangerous or awkward questions, I sense... Because they don't test for the flu everywhere like we are with this...and when someone dies with influenza and various other diseases,..."

I note WHO estimates that globally the flu kills up to 650,000 people per year and has done since 2010.

Yes on average but sometimes higher.. the 2017-18 influenza season is estimated to have killed 1m-1.5m globally... I hope those calling for measures now, took great precautions during the 2017-18 influenza season...

Ian J Miller, I am also old. I make the opposite choice, in the almost certain knowledge that because of family history I will stroke out within a few years anyway. (I don't want to be 75, much less any older). I much prefer freedom!

Anni, I agree with you about the lack of a vaccine

Debby, I have passed 75 a few years ago, and right now I am happy to keep going. It is surprising how your attitude changes, but I agree that you should make the most of the time you have, starting now.

Ian J Miller, if I make it to 75, I will be the first in my family to do so in 4 generations. So I have no experience of being that age. My attitude may change, however during the lockdown I experienced the first real threat to my mental health, despite all the desperately awful things that have happened to me. I am terrified of going through that again. I'd rather take my chances on Covid-19, tho' because of my BP I am supposedly vulnerable.

Debby, nobody has experience of being at that age until they get there. But I hope you get what you want out of life. My feeling is that during a lockdown you have to try to forget about what is going on and focus on what you can do. I know, easier said than done but I managed to find things to do. Fortunately it was still warm enough to do things outside, and autumn is a time when I have a lot of shrubbery to cut back. So try and find something that is worth doing that otherwise you might not have. It makes you feel satisfied when finished such a job, and it takes your mind off the bad aspects of it all.

Debby wrote: "Ian J Miller, I am also old. I make the opposite choice, in the almost certain knowledge that because of family history I will stroke out within a few years anyway. (I don't want to be 75, much les..."

Hi Debby, if you ever decide you do want to live longer or as long as you can, then have you considered the science of epigenetics? In Latin it literally means ABOVE genetics.

In recent years scientists have begun to understand things like our environments and attitudes to life are often more important than genes inherited from our families. I personally think people were a little hoodwinked before studies on epigenetics were advanced e.g. there were many people claiming they could do almost nothing with their lives due to genetic inheritances and whatever they did would never make any difference (kinda like some of the hysteria we have see during this Rona virus!).

However, you may have noticed a change even from within scientific academia in recent years in this regard - where the discoveries of epigenetics are starting to alter understandings of what it takes to be healthy, live long etc.

Here's a discussion thread I began on epigenetics, hoping to attract brighter minds to comment...

/topic/show/...

Why does the IMF demand Belarus quarantine, isolate and curfew population?

Interesting how the World Bank and International Monetary Fund are applying financial pressure to keep the strict measures in place. The parasites have a very wide reach, yet their actions display their deceit.

The Belarus President has pulled out of the deal after he noticed that there was pressure for Belarus to model themselves on Italy's response to the virus...

The article referenced:

Yes but the World Bank and the IMF have always been working one way or another for the benefit of a select few.

There is really no "but" there, to be honest. If it's true, as the President of Belarus states or implies, that the FINANCIAL institutions like the World Bank and IMF are pressuring them to carry out specific HEALTH measures like further lockdowns etc, then it's becoming very clear now that these shut-down measures somehow greatly benefit the powers that be - probably in various ways, but in terms of the IMF and the World Bank it's likely they wanna bankrupt certain nations like they tried (or did?) with Greece a few years back.

Of course, many Sheeple will continue to trust and need more clues before they question anything in their minds. Hopefully they don't awaken too late...

James wrote: "There is really no "but" there, to be honest. If it's true, as the President of Belarus states or implies, that the FINANCIAL institutions like the World Bank and IMF are pressuring them to carry o..."

What's interesting there James, is that Belarus is hugely important for Russia in order for them to maintain access to the Sulwaki Gap which in turn gives them access to their exclave of Kalingrad and from there major power projection over the Baltics and access to the EU.

There was some suggestions that Lukashenko was starting to drift from that Russian orbit and approaching The West when it came to oil and gas.

Wondering if there's something more to this . . . .

Oh yeah, I didn't think of the Kaliningrad connection

You notice also Iain that Russia suddenly becoming a lot more active in all this? Hacking vaccine trials for example.

You think Putin has been just waiting for the opportune time to insert Russia into this entire mess?

James wrote: "Oh yeah, I didn't think of the Kaliningrad connection

You notice also Iain that Russia suddenly becoming a lot more active in all this? Hacking vaccine trials for example.

You think Putin has bee..."

Yeah its important. If Belarus falls into economic turmoil as a consequence somehow then you could maybe see Lukashenko forced to make deals elsewhere or cheaper markets become more of an incentive. Could even lead to his removal from office is it became drastic.

There's a lot of concern over the Baltics just now and Russia's power projection capability over it is formidable.

I haven't read too much into the Russian hack. Just a little. What I've gathered so far is that nothing has been stolen and that the 'alerts' came from Ruskies scanning their network and IT infrastructure, which to be honest mate is nothing major.

It's like the digital version of them flying Tupolovs off our coast and probing our air defense response.

What I would look for though is budgets and money being demanded on the back of this to beef up our security and maybe due this Britain finds itself a lucrative market for allies in the defense / security sector to contend for contracts over?

Iain wrote: "James wrote: "Oh yeah, I didn't think of the Kaliningrad connection

You notice also Iain that Russia suddenly becoming a lot more active in all this? Hacking vaccine trials for example.

You think..."

Problem with cyberattacks is attribution. They're adamant it came from them, but never discount their use as a proxy either.

The Rona, and lockdown measures, might be the beginning of some long term plan... If so, what's Stage 2 in all this??

Is this world in total upheaval at the moment or am I imagining it? If this is the "new normal" politicians are talking about I'm not sure I like it...

Iain wrote: "Iain wrote: "James wrote: "Oh yeah, I didn't think of the Kaliningrad connection

You notice also Iain that Russia suddenly becoming a lot more active in all this? Hacking vaccine trials for exampl..."

I forgot to say where the report of this attack differs from most is that the U.S. , Canada and UK have made the allegation against Russia as an attack directly originating from their government.

Might be a nascent sign, even if tepid, of the coming multipolar split and possible future split in the internet between East and West.

Iain, Have you heard of the theory saying there will eventually be temporary shut-downs of the internet in relation to the virus and interrelated events?

Imagine a scenario where you are in lockdown, plus you can't go online as well...

No haven't heard that at all. Got a link?

I doubt that would happen. You take the net the economy tanks, online banking and transactions get majorly disrupted, thwarts Gov and organizations sending out alerts and so on.

Would be hugely disruptive and impactful. Reason Russians did it on Georgia.

Only way I could see that happen is Cyber 9/11 and it would have to take down the main infrastructure and arterial routes of the net.

Maybe that's why the Duma passed laws that would allow Russia to shut down the net.

Sounds like a theory. Sounds like something from Prisoner Cell Block H.

Never say never.

But hey, don't wanna let anyone steal the idea.

Iain wrote: "Sounds like a theory. Sounds like something from Prisoner Cell Block H.

But hey, don't wanna let anyone steal the idea."

Has anyone else seen this Simpsons episode?
It's unnervingly accurate:-

James Morcan, that resonates with me, my friend and I have been trying to figure out cui bono for months! When I saw an item on Twitter about the IMF weighing in, a lot of things made sense.

Yeah Debby. If the IMF and World Bank putting pressure on nations like Belarus to lockdown longer and "follow the Italian model" doesn't make people suspicious of the overall Rona narrative, then I don't know what will. This clearly shows how medical science can be corrupted by non-scientific forces like the financial sector, politics, academic dogma, etc, all of which can easily create pseudoscience... We got ourselves a Medical Industrial Complex on our hands...

Thought provoking

Swedish scientists may be in high demand in future, if these early medical papers are anything to go by. For example, this statement from one of the research papers listed below: "sufficient herd-immunity may already be in place to substantially mitigate a potential second wave"

Bombshell Report: Herd Immunity Reached at 20%

REFERENCES:

The impact of host resistance on cumulative mortality and the threshold of herd immunity for SARS-CoV-2
Doctors: Jose Lourenco, Francesco Pinotti, Craig Thompson, Sunetra Gupta

It is widely believed that the herd immunity threshold (HIT) required to prevent a resurgence of SARS-CoV-2 is in excess of 50% for any epidemiological setting. Here, we demonstrate that HIT may be greatly reduced if a fraction of the population is unable to transmit the virus due to innate resistance or cross-protection from exposure to seasonal coronaviruses. The drop in HIT is proportional to the fraction of the population resistant only when that fraction is effectively segregated from the general population; however, when mixing is random, the drop in HIT is more precipitous. Significant reductions in expected mortality can also be observed in settings where a fraction of the population is resistant to infection. These results help to explain the large degree of regional variation observed in seroprevalence and cumulative deaths and suggest that sufficient herd-immunity may already be in place to substantially mitigate a potential second wave.


Individual variation in susceptibility or exposure to SARS-CoV-2 lowers the herd immunity threshold

It would be a step forward if the colds produced by coronviruses (and most colds are actually due to rhinoviruses) give you protection. It can happen - cowpox was the first noted immunity to smallpox.

And similar to the UK's London Imperial College which estimated a week or two ago that 8M Brits have already been infected by the virus, now this from Iran (about 30% of their population already have had the virus):

Rouhani says 25 million Iranians infected with COVID-19

(Reuters) - Iran’s President Hassan Rouhani said on Saturday that 25 million Iranians have been infected with the coronavirus

The Health Ministry on Friday said 13,791 people had died from COVID-19.


p.s. If true, and these estimates are at least in the ballpark, that's once again in the Influenza range of IFR (Infection Fatality Rate).

Alexis wrote: "Thought provoking"

Life changing

James wrote: "And similar to the UK's London Imperial College which estimated a week or two ago that 8M Brits have already been infected by the virus, now this from Iran (about 30% of their population already ha..."

One wonders why Rouhani made this announcement. Where is the benefit?

Ian wrote: "James wrote: "And similar to the UK's London Imperial College which estimated a week or two ago that 8M Brits have already been infected by the virus, now this from Iran (about 30% of their populat..."

He added that “there is the possibility that between 30 and 35 million more people will be at risk�, but did not elaborate on what he meant.

Iranians might be benefiting from the lock-down measures if having problems with civil unrest or a threat to their position due to sanctions and the economic squeeze placed on them. This would give them impetus to thwart protests, quash unrest, impose extra restrictions, etc, while repelling any 'softwar' attacks or initiatives from foreign players.

Rouhani might be 'tacitly' justifying the need for vigilance for other reasons . . . .

Iain McKenzie, I think you underestimate the problem Iran's having with US sanctions. Also, I was just reading this written by C J Hopkins, an American satirist living in Germany. (if I had a computer, I would do a link). "ColdType | Mid-July 2020 | 43
“The masses were not innocent
dupes. At a certain point, under
a certain set of conditions, they
wanted fascism, and it is this per-
version of the desire of the masses
that needs to be accounted for.�
I am not going to try to account
for the “perversion of the desire
of the masses� here in this essay,
but I do want to dig into the new
pathologised totalitarianism a lit-
tle bit.
Now, I’m going to assume that
you understand that the official
“apocalyptic pandemic� narrative
is predicated on propaganda, wild
speculation, and mass hysteria,
and that by now you are aware that
we are dealing with a virus that
causes mild to moderate symptoms
(or absolutely no symptoms at all)
in 95 percent of those infected, and
that over 99.5 percent survive �
thus, clearly, no cause for wide-
spread panic or justification for
the totalitarian “emergency meas-
ures� that have been imposed. I
am also going to assume that you
watched as GloboCap switched off
the “deadly pandemic� to accom-
modate the BLM protests, then
switched it back on as soon as they
subsided, and that you noted how
their propaganda shifted to “cas-
es� when the death count finally
became a little too embarrassing
to continue to hype.
So, I won’t waste your time de-
bunking the hysteria. Let’s talk
pathologised totalitarianism.
The genius of pathologised to-
talitarianism is like that old joke
about the Devil � his greatest trick
was convincing us that he doesn’t
exist. Pathologised totalitarianism
appears to emanate from nowhere,
and everywhere, simultaneously;
thus, technically, it does not exist.
It cannot exist, because no one is
responsible for it, because eve-
ryone is. Mass hysteria is its life-
blood. It feeds on existential fear.
“Science� is its rallying cry. Not
actual science, not provable facts,
but “Science� as a kind of deity
whose Name is invoked to silence
heretics, or to ease the discomfort
of the cognitive dissonance that
results from desperately trying to
believe the absurdities of the offi-
cial narrative.
The other genius of it (from a
GloboCap viewpoint) is that it is
inexhaustible, endlessly recycla-
ble. Unlike other official enemies,
the “deadly virus� could be any
virus, any pathogen whatsoever.
All they have to do from now on
is “discover� some “novel� micro-
organism that is highly contagious
(or that mimics some other micro-
organism that we already have),
and wave it in front of people’s
faces. Then they can crank up the
Fear Machine, and start project-
ing hundreds of millions of deaths
if everyone doesn’t do exactly as
Photo: Korhan Erdol / Pexels.com"

Iain wrote: "Ian wrote: "James wrote: "And similar to the UK's London Imperial College which estimated a week or two ago that 8M Brits have already been infected by the virus, now this from Iran (about 30% of t..."

What the sanctions that were starting to cause unrest until China stepped in to alleviate some of the issues?

If your arguing counter don;t you mean over-estimating rather than under estimating?

The sanctions that, as with the ones on Venezuela have harmed the response to the virus. Rouhani may be, to come over all Shakespearean for a moment "biting his thumb" at the world, saying "we're not bovvered".

Debby wrote: "The sanctions that, as with the ones on Venezuela have harmed the response to the virus. Rouhani may be, to come over all Shakespearean for a moment "biting his thumb" at the world, saying "we're n..."

The Mullah's are far too smart than to appear to be 'nonchalant' about a Pandemic effecting their populace and especially with those figures.

The only benefit in him presenting figures that more or less prove their incapability to handle the situation has to be balanced by something commensurate that they could gain from, i.e. further severe lockdown restrictions.

As Shakespeare would say: "nothing extenuate".

I don't think we have any idea what the Iran government is thinking. The virus is obviously something that they see as bad. The idea of saying about a third of the country has had it and most have survived, without any evidence whatsoever, is simply a ploy to say the government has not been anywhere nearly as bad as you might think by looking at the death statistics. My guess is the sanctions on Iran by the US have thrown it into the sphere of interest of the Chinese, and secured for China the necessary oil it needs. Not exactly one of Trump's brightest moves, but if you want to run a government like a property development company you have to expect some indifferent outcomes.

Ian wrote: "I don't think we have any idea what the Iran government is thinking. The virus is obviously something that they see as bad. The idea of saying about a third of the country has had it and most have ..."

They were already furthering into their(Chinese) orbit via the SCO. The Iranians are 'drafting' up a 25 year deal / contract with the Chinese at present.

There's a bit of debate over what this could entail and also some fightback against it from inside?

Technocrats Should Observe the Hippocratic Oath

Iain, maybe the Iranians are not that sold on the Chinese deal (I think it includes a required participation in the belt) but if the Chinese are offering to buy all their oil, do they have a choice? The US is refusing to let anyone else buy their oil. It would be interesting if the US decided to try to sink or board tankers heading to China because while it might be debated whether Iran could close the gulf to other oil shipments, the Chinese military just might be more tricky, especially with Russian air defence and cruise missiles.

Iain McKenzie, what I meant by "not bothered" is, "you can't harm us".

Ian wrote: "Iain, maybe the Iranians are not that sold on the Chinese deal (I think it includes a required participation in the belt) but if the Chinese are offering to buy all their oil, do they have a choice..."

That's kinda what I am wondering: if the Iranians make concessions in order to gravitate towards Beijing in such a way where they might find a greater and better deterrence and parasol of protection to check against U.S. ambitions in the region or aggression.

I think the argument might be the fear the Chinese tie them into lucrative long-term deals in exchange for short-term benefits in the scope suggested, especially if there's changes in the U.S. presidency and pressure could ease on them as a consequence in the future.

There could also be inside opposition using this as a means to agitate and to help gain power. Moderates are in power just now and the backlash to any deal has came from hardliners like Ahmadinejad(spelling).

World's forming a new dynamic and I can see Iran moving into this 'greater' orbit of China regardless.

Amazing to think back in the 60s / 70s just prior to Ayatollah gaining power they referred to the country as The Japan of The Middle East, due to its potential.