Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ

Is the Corona LOCKDOWN about something more than just the virus, tho? :)

We have Iranian members, I hope they comment

James wrote: "Is the Corona LOCKDOWN about something more than just the virus, tho? :)"

Yes. It helps the Chinese BRI and accelerates tensions across the world which force China and Iran to form a deeper compact. :)

Debby wrote: "Iain McKenzie, what I meant by "not bothered" is, "you can't harm us"."

20-30 million Iranians never agreed with that comment.

Raab: No return to normal relations with China

The Foreign Secretary has warned that business between the UK and China will not return to normal, following tension over Hong Kong and Huawei.

Iain wrote: "Raab: No return to normal relations with China

The Foreign Secretary has warned that business between the UK and China will not return to normal, following tension over Hong Kong and Huawei.

http..."

Is the UK, US, CA and AU following Spykman's Rim Land theory and the Chinese and Russians following MacKinders Heartland theory in the quest for global dominance?

Whole thread turning into war and geopolitics :(

James wrote: "Whole 0
thread turning into war and geopolitics :("

Sorry mate. I'll shift it to geoeconomics.

After tonight chucking soc media for a bit anyways. Got to follow the plan; got my own lil personal war to sort . . . . ;)

Iain wrote: "James wrote: "Whole 0
thread turning into war and geopolitics :("

Sorry mate. I'll shift it to geoeconomics.

After tonight chucking soc media for a bit anyways. Got to follow the plan; got my ow..."



Comment:

Tuneman1984 : "Locked it down? No, this is Italy, they don't exactly lock down."

That quote sure didn't age well...

Haha, no that quote didn't age well at all!

The Covid-19 changes that could last long-term

Iain wrote: "No haven't heard that at all. Got a link?

I doubt that would happen. You take the net the economy tanks, online banking and transactions get majorly disrupted, thwarts Gov and organizations sending out alerts and so on...."

I couldn't find the article I read previously as it was a conspiracy article and now Google lumps all conspiracies together as "dangerous", then trying to search such articles via Google is near impossible.

India been doing it for a while as has Myanmar and I think China sometimes too. And Iran did the biggest net shutdown ever (in terms of population) last year.

But more telling was Egypt's internet shutdowns during their Arab Spring in 2011.

So what's spiralling outta this Rona crisis is anarchy like we have seen in the US...Anarchy in the name of "protest movements" whether BLM or anti-fascism etc...And what's interesting is many aspects of the protests/riots mirror the Arab Spring, including policemen taking a knee in submission...

From memory the idea is that such riots could be used as an excuse for internet shutdowns. As it could be argued the anarchists need the internet to mobilize...

The article I read also mentioned cyber attacks could cause it too (but like 9/11 you won't know if it is a foreign attack or an inside job or false flag attack).

In theory I agree with you that if you destroyed the net (even for a short period) the economy tanks for sure, given we are so reliant on online transactions and interactions (as is the govt). BUT then you consider the IMF and World Bank being now on record as trying to pressure nations like Belarus and Italy to do a complete lockdown for months -- this is also anti-capitalism and anti-democracy and anti-logic...But still, they are doing it.

Have you considered here the goal is to destroy nation states? Like, ALL nation states even the US?

Have you considered here the goal is to destroy nation states? Like, ALL nation states even the US?

That's always really been the goal - to have a One World Government.

Historically limitation in travel ability and communications kept it in check up until now. The Internet, advances in tech, breaking down of language barriers and speed of travel makes this goal now achievable, but how to do it correctly?

I thought the pathway to that was gonna start with economic zones of influence, i.e. EU, NAFTA, SCO, etc and from that proceed to where legal and financial boundaries eventually broke down and we became assimilated into one system, but COVID has caused, or more to the point, pointed out the flaws in the interdependence of globalism and the imbalance current.y inherent.

I think what we're witnessing now is new economic formations coming together post Brexit and at the back of that and within the spheres another ideological level and contention from those that favor forms of protectionism against those favoring globalism.

This might be what we are witnessing trickling down?

Remember they tried it with the League of Nations which failed and then you got the UN which is merely ceremonial. What's next?

Iain wrote: "I think what we're witnessing now is new economic formations coming together post Brexit and at the back of that and within the spheres another ideological level from those that favor forms of protectionism against globalism...."

Agreed.

And if the goal was to systematically destroy all nation states, or at least all democratic ones, it'd take a very big event or sequences of events to bring down the mother of all modern ones:

THE

U

S

A

Iain wrote: "Remember they tried it with the League of Nations which failed and then you got the UN which is merely ceremonial. What's next?..."

How about some kind of revamped version that hides behind "science" and in particular a Medical Industrial Complex?

James wrote: "Iain wrote: "I think what we're witnessing now is new economic formations coming together post Brexit and at the back of that and within the spheres another ideological level from those that favor ..."

The League of Plandemics?

Iain, I think all that is trickling down right now is the virus. If you examine carefully, wealth with be moving up, and in more than a trickle.

Ian wrote: "Iain, I think all that is trickling down right now is the virus. If you examine carefully, wealth with be moving up, and in more than a trickle."

What I was meaning Ian in the trickle down was Trump and Biden representing differing ideological concepts of how the US should represent itself in the World Order and from that vantage you no doubt have influential businesses and financial entities that favor one or the other.

You think UBI is gonna find a birth in all of this?

What's your thoughts Ian on what we're experiencing now,its progress, the future of automation and the impact of the necessity of green-tech and geopolitical ambition to boot?

I don't think things will change much in the near future. More and more wealth will accumulate in the hands of fewer and fewer because that is what maths say if you don't have some force to reverse it, and politicians are too deep in the pockets of their funders.

Then I think eventually the fabled camel-breaking straw will lead to some fairly chaotic events. But right now I think anyone with ability to organise a political revolt is too busy making their own private gains and those at the bottom are too weak to do anything other than put up with their lot.

Ian wrote: "I don't think things will change much in the near future. More and more wealth will accumulate in the hands of fewer and fewer because that is what maths say if you don't have some force to reverse..."

Sounds like a nightmare Ian.

Stay safe.

Fascism was never the goal because the Cold War replaced it with communism. It's communism dissenters and anarchists want to replace United States' capitalism with.

Not a nightmare - simple mathematics

Iain, you stay safe and virus free too.

5G Technology and induction of coronavirus in skin cells

"In this research, we show that 5G millimeter waves could be absorbed by dermatologic cells acting like antennas, transferred to other cells and play the main role in producing Coronaviruses in biological cells. DNA is built from charged electrons and atoms and has an inductor-like structure. This structure could be divided into linear, toroid and round inductors. Inductors interact with external electromagnetic waves, move and produce some extra waves within the cells."

"The shapes of these waves are similar to shapes of hexagonal and pentagonal bases of their DNA source. These waves produce some holes in liquids within the nucleus. To fill these holes, some extra hexagonal and pentagonal bases are produced. These bases could join to each other and form virus-like structures such as Coronavirus. To produce these viruses within a cell, it is necessary that the wavelength of external waves be shorter than the size of the cell. Thus 5G millimeter waves could be good candidates for applying in constructing virus-like structures such as Coronaviruses (COVID-19) within cells."

Doctors: M. Fioranelli , A. Sepehri, M.G. Roccia, M. Jafferany, O. Yu. Olisova, K.M. Lomonosov, T. Lotti1,3

Department of Nuclear, Sub-nuclear and Radiation Physics, G. Marconi University, Rome, Italy;
Central Michigan Saginaw, Michigan , USA;
Department of Dermatology and Venereology, I.M.
Sechenov First Moscow State Medical University, Moscow, Russia






FULL PDF SUMMARY OF STUDY:

James wrote: "5G Technology and induction of coronavirus in skin cells

"In this research, we show that 5G millimeter waves could be absorbed by dermatologic cells acti..."

So hang on, didn't we all get told it is pseudoscientific, dangerous, paranoid, conspiracy nonsense to ever mention there MAY be any connection between 5G and Coronavirus symptoms? And didn't numerous independent researchers and "rogue" doctors and scientists get kicked off FB and YT and Twitter for merely suggesting there MAY be a connection?

Even when I type search it on Twitter I get an OZ govt announcement telling me: "Know the facts. The Australian Government has said there is no evidence of a link between 5G and coronavirus (COVID-19)."

So IF there is a 5G and COVID-19 connection, along the lines of the PubMed published scientific/medical article above (which is still to be proven of course), is it possible there is a financial/technological reason for all this mess?

For example, I read somewhere 5G is estimated to soon be a multitrilliondollar industry. So is it possible they have invested too much into 5G for them to halt the rollout due to any health concerns?

p.s. As of December last year, I believe I read Wuhan was the only place in China where 5G had been rolled out at that point (when the virus broke out)...

The Daily Mail July 23, 2020, features this headline:
“UK records 110 coronavirus victims as daily death toll continues to fall and figures show three times more people are now dying of flu and pneumonia � but cases have risen for the fifth day in a row for the first time since April.�

What jumps out at me in that heading is the fact that “figures show three times more people are now dying of flu and pneumonia� in the UK.

Health reporter Connor Boyd says, “Just 283 people died from Covid-19 in England and Wales in the week ending July 10, according to the ONS (Office for National Statistics)…For comparison, 917 influenza and pneumonia deaths were registered in the same week, statisticians said.�

So, the question has to be asked: Why aren’t flu virus patients being quarantined in the UK?

And if the flu/coronavirus mortality rate comparisons are similar elsewhere, why aren't flu virus patients everywhere being quarantined?

The answer to your question Lance, is that patently none of the measures to control the Covid19 make sense because it is all a scam to get everyone vaccinated with BG’s toxic vaccines.

I feel it's more than just vaccines and more than BG, Anni. Those may be the more obvious things. What do you think?

I agree James - it’s just one aspect of the Agenda 21 /New World Order/ Reset plan to control (I.e. reduce) the population and enslave humanity.

James Morcan, do you really believe that Russia hacked vaccine trials? They are further ahead with their own vaccine, hacking would likely be the other way around. Maybe I am naive but I don't believe any American accusations.

I haven't even followed that story about Russia, Debby

Å·±¦ÓéÀÖ Member, how do you know that they don't agree?

Mark, sorry, I can't accept that. As I have said often, the American eagle flies in circles because it has two right wings.

James Morcan, I read the accusation on Al Jazeera who are getting more American every day, & read about it on Corriere Delle Sere & RT. MY Russian students are highly amused at the idea that Russia is so obsessed with US and UK, they seldom give those places a thought.

"CDC now believes (as do I) that ~10% of the U.S. has already been infected (i.e. 32M)" "It is irresponsible to report on “lab confirmed� cases without providing an estimate for “unreported� or “estimated infections.� The 5% we see in the news is really closer to 0.3% (for people infected). And of course, far more people have been exposed, but nobody reports the lower “exposure to fatality� ratios."


(So I think the only question now is are they purposefully presenting the data in sensationalist ways?)

Covid-19 Measures Have All but Wiped Out the Flu in the Southern Hemisphere
From Chile to South Africa to New Zealand, countries report far lower numbers of influenza cases


Influenza (accidentally or purposefully) reclassified as the Rona virus?

Yup, you’ve hit the nail on the head James!

If you successfully avoid one highly contagious airborne disease you will avoid the others too. Lockdowns may have extra benefits. It will be interesting to see what happens to flu in the US next winter.

Nobody suggests there are not unreported cases. The problem lies with the word estimate. How do you estimate where you have no data? There have been a couple of reports from Spain and Italy of widespread antibodies to the SARS virus up to a year before it appeared. Anyone who is reasonably familiar with chemotaxonomy or molecular taxonomy knows that there are huge commonalities within families, and this is the basis of phylogeny. So the question then is, which do you believe:
(a) The virus with an extremely close relationship to a Chinese bat virus was around and infecting a large number for a year in south3rn Europe but nobody noticed, then a year later it burst out in China and started killing, and spread from there in its hazardous form infecting and killing,
(b) The antibody tests are just picking up responses to the family Coronaviridae

The question then is, if you do not show symptoms, are you infected or merely carrying the virus? The very young seem to have no response to it. There is still a lot we don't know. There are signs that reinfection is possible, which many mean the virus can be stored in the body to re-emerge from time to time. As for the death rate, it will obviously be less than that with confirmed cases, but until we know more about the virus' characteristics, I believe any estimate is merely a guess.

Ian wrote: "Nobody suggests there are not unreported cases. The problem lies with the word estimate. ..."

Um, err, you did essentially say all that Ian i.e. throughout this discussion thread you repeatedly said "New Zealand completely eradicated the virus" due to no new recorded cases and you also refused dozens of times to entertain or discuss any estimates beyond recorded cases in NZ or internationally, and most importantly you stated only recorded cases verses recorded deaths can and should be used to calculate the fatality rate - it's all written here by you in plain English in this very thread.

And unfortunately plenty of others (as in the majority of the public and most journalists) have also for months now been incorrectly quoting the sort of extremely high fatality rates you were previously quoting (e.g. your 5% CFR/Case Fatality Rate you were inadvertently quoting) by not being aware of the great importance of unrecorded cases ALL such viruses have (which then allows scientists to discover the IFR/Infection Fatality Rate)...FYI, finding the IFR is how analysing true fatality rates for all infectious diseases works, there's nothing unique going on here with the Rona.

Still don't believe me? Here's Scientific American on this exact point: "Researchers use a metric called infection fatality rate (IFR) to calculate how deadly a new disease is. It is the proportion of infected people who will die as a result, including those who don’t get tested or show symptoms."

All these misunderstandings always were, and remain, frighteningly obvious pseudoscientific rubbish that have zero relation to medical science. And nope, mentioning terms "chemotaxonomy" or "molecular taxonomy" won't resuscitate your dead in the water arguments on this subject.

Anyway, I am glad you're finally prepared to entertain and discuss and acknowledge what the likes of the CDC (you know, those medical scientists who specialise in infectious diseases?) have been saying for months now - that for every single recorded case there is on average about 10 other unrecorded cases (yes that word "about" relates to estimates, but extremely necessary estimates).

That is precisely why the official medical bodies of the US, UK, Iran, Germany, Sweden, Australia, Iran etc have all now estimated around 10% of their populations have already been infected with this virus e.g. in the US alone, the CDC estimates 32 million Americans have already had the virus, most either untested or were unaware they ever had it at all. Yes, we could use more data (always), but there is now enough data to confirm the true fatality rate is not only very likely to be less than 1% and may in fact even be in the ballpark of Influenza IFR (Infection Fatality Rate)...that part of how low below 1% still remains to be seen (so far most consistent estimates internationally seem to be between 0.2-0.4% IFR, but I have seen one report from Stanford stating 0.1% and another from elsewhere in the USA stating 0.6%, but nothing higher than that).

And yes, of course any estimate is just a guess to a degree one could argue, but it's scientifically naive in this instance to suggest just because something is an estimate that we know nothing and therefore we should ignore or disregard estimates of total populations infected. You say, "How do you estimate where you have no data"...Say what?! NO data? We have data (check out all the data listed below the estimated IFR put out by the CDC and WHO, for example). Is the data still limited to a degree? Yup, that's why they are estimating and that's why there are (minor) differences in fatality rate estimates between nations, medical bodies etc.

The point is including confirmed cases PLUS estimated unconfirmed cases gets us far closer to the truth than the approach you've been posting here for months (i.e. we should only focus on confirmed cases and ignore "meaningless estimates")...That's the sort of approach that not only leads to people sharing on social media Armageddon-like fatality rates of 5% and therefore increasing fear in others who read such statements, but it's also the sort of crucial scientific error that could lead to support in the public for long-term lockdowns and/or other major restrictions of our usual way of life...And by long-term, I'm literally talking years not months of this way of life e.g. Boris Johnson said on Friday that he "hopes" the UK will be on top of the virus and "returning to normal, by mid-2021"...


p.s. For anyone else confused, here is the crucial difference in how to accurately estimate how deadly any infectious disease is:

The CFR (Case Fatality Rate) is not the all-important IFR (Infection Fatality Rate) /topic/show/...

James, I think I tried to say NZ eliminated the virus. That, of course, referred to people in NZ. Now we have cases again, brought in by people from offshore returning, but all these cases are in quarantine, at least we hope. There have been a small number of people who seem to claim their right to be totally uncooperative and start it up again by breaking out of quarantine (we have tried to be kind and put them in hotels, and they break windows and break fences - you can see what exercising their so-called rights leads to).

Yes, I have steadfastly considered that a person with the SARS virus is someone who has been shown to have THAT virus. I would certainly accept the CDC study if I had access to it and it did not have any obvious error (and the reason for saying that is some senior people in US government organizations do confirm the political line - just look at some of the EPA statements).

The point that I have made is that a long term lockdown is not required. All that is required is 28 days of PROPER lockdown. The need is to stop transmission.

Of course the death rate is not the only negative. The time some spend in ICU is not exactly desirable for them, except they would die of not there. As for the death rate, that depends on the sample, because it is apparently higher in the older community. And the death rate is far from known, nor do we understand the long-term ugly effects. There are apparently some cases of people getting a return of symptoms. They may be getting reinfected, or they may be getting a return of the first infection. It may take a few years before we know the true impact. In theory we could have eliminated it had we all done the right thing. Now I think it is a permanent feature and we have the option of (a) believing it is mild and ignoring it, or (b) getting a vaccine and hope it works.

There are none so blind as those that will not see - not just with their eyes, but with their brain.
You are never going to convince those useful idiots sadly to say, James. Don’t waste your time.

Anni wrote: "There are none so blind as those that will not see - not just with their eyes, but with their brain.."

I tried, Anni, I tried... :(

It's just such a heartbreaking realization when you see for yourself how dogmatic and biased what we call "science" has become. That trend permeates scientific academia globally (especially medicine) where the accepted NARRATIVE (e.g. vaccines are 100% safe and there can never be any middle ground debate) often overrides scientific facts that may contradict that narrative.

Just to clarify what some seem to have trouble with, science is a methodology that draws conclusions from measurements. If there are measurements that lead to a 0.1% death rate and are cited somewhere where the methodology can be followed, then give us a reference/link. Yes, I agree the confirmed case leave out the unconfirmed ones, but they are the only ones available that ensure the virus was actually present in the recorded cases.

In any case, what is the point? I am arguing this virus is a serious health risk. James, you seem to be arguing it is not. It now seems to be getting out of control in India. Would you care to make a prediction of the total deaths in India by six months time?Obviously any prediction will be wildly erroneous numerically, but the question is, is it going to be a serious number? If it is a trivial disease, then it will have a trivial impact. At a personaly level, I feel the 600 thousand odd already is far from trivial.

James Morcan, yes! Cases of flu reclassified, makes perfect sense. I refused a flu vaccine (1st time I was offered it) to the shock of the practice nurse, I have still never had real flu (here people call a heavy cold, flu). C J Hopkins has referred to this as "the war on death", such a silly idea! People seem to have forgotten that seasonal flu also kills.

Ian J Miller, Sorry, that makes me very cross indeed! If these returnees really were in 5 star hotels eating gourmet food, why would they want to break out? (escape, abscond, as the media put it). There was a highly publicised case on Friday of a family, a young woman, & her 4 children who climbed a 2 metre (6 foot as the media said) fence in the middle of the night. I am the size of the youngest child,a 12 year old, I would be unable to climb such a fence unless motivated by sheer terror, so where are these ppl really?

Debby, you are not the only one who is cross. If idiots like this persist, sooner or later the virus will escape and we will be back to lockdowns, with serious job losses etc. It is totally selfish and irresponsible. Apparently that family broke a hotel window to get out and avoid being detected, or so they thought. Why should the hotel have to put up with this sort of damage?

I understand the family (mother & three kids) 'escaped' lockdown as they were desperate to attend the funeral of a close family member. Understandable perhaps given they were grief-stricken at the time. Many of us would probably do the same...

Debby wrote: "Ian J Miller, Sorry, that makes me very cross indeed! If these returnees really were in 5 star hotels eating gourmet food, why would they want to break out? (escape, abscond, as the media put it). ..."

I don't believe "terror" was involved. More like grief as per my previous message.

A telephone call could surely delay the funeral. Funerals are often delayed to let people come from a long distance, and "I want to go to a funeral" is no excuse to risk thousands of people's jobs, and since funerals tend to have old people there, risk killing them if you have the virus. Sorry, Lance, but I think they were just plain selfish and couldn't care less about anyone else.

Ian wrote: "A telephone call could surely delay the funeral. Funerals are often delayed to let people come from a long distance, and "I want to go to a funeral" is no excuse to risk thousands of people's jobs,..."

I guess grief can cloud one's judgement at times...